Should i worry about TB ? (Fish Tuberculosis / M. marinum)

[Drakal]

Hi!

Long story short, I bought some Asian glass catfish for my main tank today.

They had been in the shop for quite some time. I asked the guy how long they had been there, and he told me it had been 8 weeks.

So, I naively thought, "Well, okay, that seems safe. They've pretty much already been quarantined." They wrapped the fish in paper bags to avoid stressing them, and I acclimated them in the same paper-wrapped bag. When I released them into my tank, one of them just dropped to the bottom. Due to stress and its bent spine, it couldn't swim.

I quickly removed it and placed it in a hospital tank. It can swim, but it has a severely bent spine. I suspect this isn't a new issue since its lower fin looks a bit damaged/worn, as does its tail. I assume it's because it has to rest at the bottom of the tank quite often? Or maybe it's related to its condition, I don't know.

Now, I've been searching for "Asian glassfish bent spine," and ALL the results suggest "Fish TB" (Fish Tuberculosis / M. marinum). I'm freaking out because I don't want my fish to get infected, nor do I want to contract it myself.

So, what do you guys think? Should I be concerned, or is it just a fish with a bent spine and nothing more?

 

[Colin_T]

Need better pictures under normal white light showing the fish from the side.

In my experience, glass catfish are not commonly seen with Fish TB (Mycobacteria species), and you should be able to see any granulomas (TB growths) in the body if it has one. You won't see it in their intestines but the area where that fish is bent should be clear and easily show any growths or tumours.

The fish appears to be really skinny looking at it from above. Malnutrition or inbreeding or even a genetic deformity can cause the bent body.

 

[GaryE]

I'm the forum tb paranoid, since I have caught and cured it in the past. I take the better safe than sorry approach, even though transmission to humans is VERY rare. I was not healthy and immune compromised when I caught it. My doctor, a professor of dermatology at a major urban university, had never seen a case "live" before.

If I suspect it, I don't risk it. I euthanize fish with possible symptoms. Your fish looks starved, but swimming with a curvature like that would take extra energy. It could be from a number of causes.

In the future, study every fish in the tank, and do not buy any if even one looks "off". Never let the store employee choose.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I agree that I wouldn't leap straight to the possibility of fish TB, although it's good to be aware of it and be cautious. But deformities due to genetic defect, along with other diseases, a starving unhealthy fish, accident or injury are incredibly common. It's far more likely that the fish store just had a tank full of us that aren't selling, and they just netted out the amount you asked for, without examining them for health or anything too closely, so you got stuck with a deformed one. Being netted, bagged and moved always causes stress to fish no matter how healthy they are, and with this one already being deformed, it handled it more visibly poorly than the others by plummeting to the bottom. If that happened happened, you might not even have noticed the bent spine straight away.


Take a lot of photos of the fish and contact the store. Ask for a refund or replacement since you've only bought them today, and clearly this isn't something you've caused.

Lessons for the future - never count the time fish spend in store as a QT. It can help give you an indicator of health if the fish are alive and look healthy after a few weeks in a store tank, and gives the fish a chance to recover from shipping and acclimating to new water parameters before you buy them, but stores are anything but a proper QT environment. Many still have tanks that run on a shared water system, nets get used and re-used in all different tanks, spreading eggs and disease, fish frequently jump from one tank to the next, and it's impossible to ask them to maintain a strict QT environment, honestly. So always QT any new fish you get yourself. It's not worth the risk to skip QT. The only exception I've ever made is for fish I've acquired from a fellow hobbyists tank that I knew were clean and beautifully maintained, but even that's a risk that shouldn't need to be taken, and better safe than sorry.

Never let the store employee pick your fish for you. Check out the store in general, do the fish look healthy and well maintained? Are there are a lot of dead fish in several tanks? If so, don't buy from there. One or two losses, okay, it happens when dealing with that amount of fish, but if there are lots of dead, dying or visibly diseased fish, don't buy from the store, even if the fish you want in one tank look okay. All are signs of a poorly maintained store with poor suppliers. Last time I visited a large chain store, there were loads of dead and deformed guppies in one tank, and a dying fancy goldfish in another tank, and a disinterested employee who didn't seem to know a thing about fish. I avoided that store since. The other chain store I've been too had a lot more tanks full of healthy looking fish, and employees who knew about fish, so I bought my purple emperor tetra from them, but still quarantined.


If the fish seems generally clean, well maintained and healthy looking fish, examine the tank of fish you're interested in more closely. Look for any struggling, deformed, or odd looking individuals. Alert them if you see a problem like this deformed one and see how they respond. If there are signs of disease in the tank, avoid and don't buy this time. Deformities are dfferent, since they're common and are usually a genetic or birth problem rather than a contagious disease.. if there are one or two deformed ones in a tank full of otherwise healthy looking fish, I'd select healthy looking specific fish and avoid the deformed ones. If there are more than two, I'd write it off as a poor batch with either disease, or a genetic flaw and not likely to be healthy even if they aren't as visibly deformed, and I wouldn't buy.

Assuming they look okay, and you're happy to buy those fish, from that tank, from that store, then pick out the individuals you want, and select the largest/healthiest/most active and thriving ones you see. It's important to you that you get the best fish you can, and you're paying the same anyway, so don't leave it to the employee to make the choices.

Once they've bagged the ones you want, examine them more closely in the bag. Don't just let them brown bag them and pay up and take them home straight away, have a good look at them first now that you can examine them more closely from above and both sides. If you're not happy with one, like this deformed one, then tell them! You're not obligated to buy them just because they've been bagged.

I always check my QT is set up and running before I'll even set foot in a fish store now, because I know how tempting it is when you see fish you really want! No matter how good the fish look in store, it can take time for problems to become visible, and QT for 2 weeks to a month is really the minimum you want to risk when adding new stock to your main tanks.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hi!

Long story short, I bought some Asian glass catfish for my main tank today.

They had been in the shop for quite some time. I asked the guy how long they had been there, and he told me it had been 8 weeks.

So, I naively thought, "Well, okay, that seems safe. They've pretty much already been quarantined." They wrapped the fish in paper bags to avoid stressing them, and I acclimated them in the same paper-wrapped bag. When I released them into my tank, one of them just dropped to the bottom. Due to stress and its bent spine, it couldn't swim.

I quickly removed it and placed it in a hospital tank. It can swim, but it has a severely bent spine. I suspect this isn't a new issue since its lower fin looks a bit damaged/worn, as does its tail. I assume it's because it has to rest at the bottom of the tank quite often? Or maybe it's related to its condition, I don't know.

Now, I've been searching for "Asian glassfish bent spine," and ALL the results suggest "Fish TB" (Fish Tuberculosis / M. marinum). I'm freaking out because I don't want my fish to get infected, nor do I want to contract it myself.

So, what do you guys think? Should I be concerned, or is it just a fish with a bent spine and nothing more?

Hello. A bent spine can be a birth defect and not a disease. Keeping an extremely clean tank keeps fish healthy and resilient to disease, so I wouldn't fret over this. Don't jump to a conclusion. If you've always kept a healthy tank, you're very likely worrying over nothing. You've isolated the fish and now you only have to keep doing what you've always done. That means keeping the water in the tanks clear of nitrogen and feeding your fish a healthy diet.

10

 

[Ichthys]

I’ve been in the wholesale side and with all mass produced species you get the occasional dud. Sometimes it’s a missing gill cover, a bent fin, whatever. With Glass Cats it’s usually a bent spine. I assume it’s just a genetic fault. If the others are ok I’d put it down to that.

Have as big a group as possible, really. These fish school very tightly and need big numbers to be totally at ease.
——-

Glass Cats often came in with an infection(?) that made their barbels turn white, then the fish died. I could never cure it. Once I saw it on one fish, I knew they were all doomed. Any ideas?

 

[Drakal]

Thank you all for your responses,

I admit I didn't thoroughly check the individuals bagged up; the aquarium was high up and only accessible by ladder, and I didn't have the best visibility of the tank. However, overall, the store offers healthy fish, and I didn't see any dead or sick fish during my visit.

I will be more attentive during quarantine. I have tanks set up for this purpose, so it will be systematic.

As for the fish in question, I don't see any lesions on its body, except for the damaged bottom fins.

However, today, the fish is straight; it's no longer bent like in the photos. You can still detect a slight anomaly, but it's almost perfectly straight. I tried feeding it; it refused the frozen and freeze-dried food (with garlic oil) but accepted some live brine shrimp nauplii. We'll see if it manages to gain some weight and if its fins heal.

As for the group in the main aquarium, they stay in the plants all day, so they're not easy to observe. Also, regarding feeding, it seems that if the food doesn't touch their barbels, there's no reaction. Maybe that will change over time.

 

[Colin_T]

If the bent fish is on its own, you need to get it back to the main group so it doesn't stress out.

A lot of glass catfish are wild caught and take a while to accept unusual foods. Offer a small amount of dry food first and remove any that hasn't been eaten after a few minutes. Then try some frozen foods and wait a few minutes. Then offer a little bit of live food last.

 

[Drakal]

Update:

I put him back in the tank with his group shortly after this post to avoid stress.

He is doing fine and he eats well. His fins are healing and his spine is no longer bent.

So far, so good.
Thanks all