Poor Syd...not doing very well

[Phil Fish]

I recently rescued a sick Crowntail named Syd. He seemed to have a fungus on his fins and head that has gone away. He was on the mend and pretty active until the last few days. He has been very sick...just floating at the surface of his 1.5 gallon hospital bowl with floating Hornwort. The bottom of his bowl has no gravel so I can see his poop and remove it with a turkey baster. He gets a 50% water change every day. I use Seachem Prime in his water. Water temperature is between 78 and 80 degrees.

At first I thought he was constipated but he eats and poops ok. Now I am not so sure. Yesterday he was sitting at the bottom breathing hard and hardly moving so I put an air stone in his bowl connected by a valve so it can give some very gentle bubbles and airate his water.

Since the air stone he now just sits at surface taking in some oxygen once in awhile. He did swim around during his water change but after that he went back to floating at the surface on some Hornwort. I have not fed him today and he hasn't pooped.

Could it be swim bladder disease? He's not floating on his side. Is there something I am missing? I am not feeding him for the next three days to see if he gets over it. I was hoping he'd feel better by the time I upgrade his aquarium to a 2.5 gallon one. Now I am afraid he's not going to make it.

 

[Cichlid4life]

pictures? that would be useful, but by the sounds of it, WC are the proper thing to do first, so give your self a pat n the back for not rushing to get meds but instead you do a WC.

 

[Phil Fish]

pictures? that would be useful, but by the sounds of it, WC are the proper thing to do first, so give your self a pat n the back for not rushing to get meds but instead you do a WC.

Thanks for commenting.
Sadly I don't have a very good camera. He doesn't really look bloated.
Since yesterday he is not swimming. Today he just floats on a plant not even moving his gills. I go over once in awhile and gently put my finger tip in the water near him and he comes alive for a second and that's it. Every once in awhile he changes positions but that's it. Just now he saw me and moved a little. He seems so weak.

When I did feed him last he had a normal poop shortly after so that's why I don't think he is constipated. His colour looks ok but he's had this fin fungus so it's hard to tell.

From visiting this wonderful site I have learned that a clean environment and temperature is most important. I don't want to introduce medicine until absolutely necessary. I will keep his water clean and watch him.

 

[Colin_T]

Swim bladder problems in fish are very rare. If a fish has a swim bladder issue, the fish will float to the surface after swimming down, or will sink to the bottom. But most fish never have swim bladder issues.

Have you tested the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & pH?

Have you been treating this fish previously?

Post a pic or short 20 second video.

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You could try doing a complete water change using water from an established tank. Is the original Betta's filter established? If yes, use water from that tank to do a complete water change on Syd's tank.

 

[Cichlid4life]

Thanks for commenting.
Sadly I don't have a very good camera. He doesn't really look bloated.
Since yesterday he is not swimming. Today he just floats on a plant not even moving his gills. I go over once in awhile and gently put my finger tip in the water near him and he comes alive for a second and that's it. Every once in awhile he changes positions but that's it. Just now he saw me and moved a little. He seems so weak.

When I did feed him last he had a normal poop shortly after so that's why I don't think he is constipated. His colour looks ok but he's had this fin fungus so it's hard to tell.

From visiting this wonderful site I have learned that a clean environment and temperature is most important. I don't want to introduce medicine until absolutely necessary. I will keep his water clean and watch him.

any pictures is better than none. stay optimistic though! do you have a filter on your tank 24/7? you always need to have a filter on, especially for a labyrinth organ fish, becuase slime will build up on the surface of the water, and when they surface to breath, the slime coats their labyrinth organs and they die, surface agitation is very important too, so that the water stays oxygenated, but surface agitation is cause by many filters though.

 

[Cichlid4life]

Swim bladder problems in fish are very rare. If a fish has a swim bladder issue, the fish will float to the surface after swimming down, or will sink to the bottom. But most fish never have swim bladder issues.

Have you tested the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & pH?

Have you been treating this fish previously?

Post a pic or short 20 second video.

----------------------
You could try doing a complete water change using water from an established tank. Is the original Betta's filter established? If yes, use water from that tank to do a complete water change on Syd's tank.

fancy goldfish are common troubled by swim bladder problems, so it depends on the fish when you say it is rare.

 

[Phil Fish]

Swim bladder problems in fish are very rare. If a fish has a swim bladder issue, the fish will float to the surface after swimming down, or will sink to the bottom. But most fish never have swim bladder issues.

Have you tested the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & pH?

Have you been treating this fish previously?

Post a pic or short 20 second video.

----------------------
You could try doing a complete water change using water from an established tank. Is the original Betta's filter established? If yes, use water from that tank to do a complete water change on Syd's tank.

As mentioned in my first post, Syd is in a 1.5 gallon fishbowl right now. He gets a 50% water change every day and after one week a 100% water change. He has no filter in his bowl just the air stone to help oxygenate his water and add some agitation. He has no heater but his water temperature is 78-81 degrees always. Both my other Bettas lived in this same bowl for a few days before being moved to a larger aquarium and were fine. Yes he had a fungus on his fins and I was treating that with clean water changes and it seemed successful.

As for swim bladder problems I thought this was a common thing in Bettas and not that rare. I will try and post a new video later today.

 

[Cichlid4life]

Never do a 100% water change! especially not once a week! and a filter is a must! those reasons are why your betta is nnot fine, because the 100% water change and have you tsted you Params ? i bet the ammonia is high and that the nitrites and nitrates are zero because you don't have a filter.

 

[Colin_T]

Even with a 50% water change each day there could be an ammonia reading and that would aggravate any other issues and also cause problems on its own.

A 100% water change is fine as long as the new water going into the tank is similar in temperature and chemistry to the old water. The new water also needs to be free of chlorine/ chloramine and aerated for a bit before being used to make the dissolved gases normal.

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The first thing people think of when their fish get sick is swim bladder problems because this is what everyone thinks. But in reality most fish that are not deformed (with a shorter squished up body) have very few issues with their swim bladder.

Fish have a lot more internal bacterial & protozoan infections, and these along with intestinal worms cause fish to balloon up and have weird shaped bellies.

Dry food also causes lots of problems to fish because it has air in it and when the fish eats a lot of food they get air in their intestines and this can cause them to have trouble swimming. Air in the intestines regularly causes fancy short body goldfish (fantails, ranchus, orandas, etc) and other types of balloon fishes (balloon mollies, balloon rams) to have trouble swimming, especially after feeding.

In a normal fish's digestive tract, the stomach, intestine & bowel are fairly straight and food can easily move through it. In short bodied fishes (fantail goldfish and balloon fishes) the body is shortened and the digestive tract and other internal organs (including the swim bladder) are squished up, so food has more trouble going through and there are more bends/ kinks in it where air and food can get trapped.

Bettas still have a reasonably normal shaped body (their fins have been exaggerated) and their digestive tract is still standard.

If you have a fish that is having trouble with its buoyancy (mainly floating), and that fish gets a lot of dry food, try changing to live or frozen food for a few days and see if it helps. Floating pellets are the worst but flakes are not the best either and both contain air.

 

[Phil Fish]

Never do a 100% water change! especially not once a week! and a filter is a must! those reasons are why your betta is nnot fine, because the 100% water change and have you tsted you Params ? i bet the ammonia is high and that the nitrites and nitrates are zero because you don't have a filter.

I tested his water parameters and they are fine. Once again there is no filter in his bowl hence the water changes. I also use Prime conditioner in his water which will detoxify the water from ammonia for 48 hours.
He is going into a larger aquarium soon with filter and heater.

 

[Phil Fish]

Even with a 50% water change each day there could be an ammonia reading and that would aggravate any other issues and also cause problems on its own.

A 100% water change is fine as long as the new water going into the tank is similar in temperature and chemistry to the old water. The new water also needs to be free of chlorine/ chloramine and aerated for a bit before being used to make the dissolved gases normal.

-------------------
The first thing people think of when their fish get sick is swim bladder problems because this is what everyone thinks. But in reality most fish that are not deformed (with a shorter squished up body) have very few issues with their swim bladder.

Fish have a lot more internal bacterial & protozoan infections, and these along with intestinal worms cause fish to balloon up and have weird shaped bellies.

Dry food also causes lots of problems to fish because it has air in it and when the fish eats a lot of food they get air in their intestines and this can cause them to have trouble swimming. Air in the intestines regularly causes fancy short body goldfish (fantails, ranchus, orandas, etc) and other types of balloon fishes (balloon mollies, balloon rams) to have trouble swimming, especially after feeding.

In a normal fish's digestive tract, the stomach, intestine & bowel are fairly straight and food can easily move through it. In short bodied fishes (fantail goldfish and balloon fishes) the body is shortened and the digestive tract and other internal organs (including the swim bladder) are squished up, so food has more trouble going through and there are more bends/ kinks in it where air and food can get trapped.

Bettas still have a reasonably normal shaped body (their fins have been exaggerated) and their digestive tract is still standard.

If you have a fish that is having trouble with its buoyancy (mainly floating), and that fish gets a lot of dry food, try changing to live or frozen food for a few days and see if it helps. Floating pellets are the worst but flakes are not the best either and both contain air.

Thanks for the detailed answer. Yes I feed him these tiny dry floating pellets. All my bettas get them but only 3 a day and a one day fast. My other two bettas are really healthy. I am concerned people keep commenting that ammonia could build up so fast since I use Prime water conditioner, doing daily water changes and removing his waste immediately and never leaving excess food to rot in his bowl. I also let his new water sit for 24 hrs before changing it out.

 

[Phil Fish]

Well I think he has Dropsy. I think his scales are pineconing and he is indeed slightly bloated on one side. I can see it when I look at him from above. He also has all the other symptoms. Seeing as he was very sick when I got him I think having the fin rot fungas and being in a pet shop for God knows how long stressed him out and compromised his immune system. I know he didn't get it here since I got him nearly two weeks ago he's always had properly heated clean water every day. I am assuming he was already infected when I got him. He has always been in a bowl alone.

I am afraid he might be too far gone. I gave him a Betta pellet and he ate it though. The only treatments I have seen for this is clean water and maybe a little aquarium salt and a high nutrients diet. Failing that its medication and if that fails... euthanasia.

 

[Colin_T]

Dropsy is a common term for bloating and inflammation of the internal body cavity and is usually caused by a bacterial or protozoan infection. Fish naturally have bacteria and protozoans in their digestive tract (same and people and all animals), and sometimes the bad bacteria grow out of control and make the fish sick. Stress, malnutrition and other health issues can all contribute to bad bacteria taking over and causing an infection.

The fish probably has an underlying health issue that has made it weaker than others in its group and that is why it was sick at the shop. And even in good conditions now, it might be too far gone.

If you want to treat it then anti-biotics should be added to food and fed to him 3 times a day, and have the medication in the water. You treat every day for at least 1 week but no longer than 2 weeks. If the medication has not made a difference after a couple of days then you will need a different medication.

Depending on what bacteria/ protozoan is causing the problem, and how far advanced the disease is, will determine if the fish will live. Quite often it is cheaper to replace the fish rather than treat it. However, I know you are attached to him so if you want to treat him, see what anti-biotics you can get from the local pet shop and give it a go. Tetracycline based anti-biotics are pretty safe and treat most things. Metronidazole works on internal protozoan infections and some bacterial infections.

 

[Phil Fish]

Dropsy is a common term for bloating and inflammation of the internal body cavity and is usually caused by a bacterial or protozoan infection. Fish naturally have bacteria and protozoans in their digestive tract (same and people and all animals), and sometimes the bad bacteria grow out of control and make the fish sick. Stress, malnutrition and other health issues can all contribute to bad bacteria taking over and causing an infection.

The fish probably has an underlying health issue that has made it weaker than others in its group and that is why it was sick at the shop. And even in good conditions now, it might be too far gone.

If you want to treat it then anti-biotics should be added to food and fed to him 3 times a day, and have the medication in the water. You treat every day for at least 1 week but no longer than 2 weeks. If the medication has not made a difference after a couple of days then you will need a different medication.

Depending on what bacteria/ protozoan is causing the problem, and how far advanced the disease is, will determine if the fish will live. Quite often it is cheaper to replace the fish rather than treat it. However, I know you are attached to him so if you want to treat him, see what anti-biotics you can get from the local pet shop and give it a go. Tetracycline based anti-biotics are pretty safe and treat most things. Metronidazole works on internal protozoan infections and some bacterial infections.

Thanks Colin. I also agree on another health problem being the cause of this. He was in terrible condition when I got him so I knew what I was getting into.

I just checked on him and his little belly is swollen just like I see in photos of other cases of Dropsy. What kind of diet do you recommend for this? Would frozen bloodworms be a good choice? Apparently fresh food of high quality is recommended but I don't know what kinds are out there.

Depending on how much it may cost, I think I will try and treat him and will go to the pet shop for some medication or see what they have. First I will go with keeping his water clean, airated and feeding him fresh food if I can find any.

My main concern is to try and find away to relieve his suffering. Sure.. I am attached to him and all my pets but not enough to prolong their pain and suffering so I am going to have to make a difficult decision.

Thanks again to all who joined in to try and help.

 

[Colin_T]

Frozen (but defrosted) bloodworms, brineshrimp and prawn/ shrimp are all usually taken. Prawn is the most nutritious, then bloodworms then brineshrimp. Some shops sells Marine Mix, which is a combination of prawn, fish & squid blended up and frozen into small cubes. Marine Mix is usually better than prawn alone but if you can't find it then buy some raw frozen prawns and keep them in the freezer. Take 1 prawn and remove the head, shell and intestine (thin black tube that runs thru the body) and throw them in the bin. Cut the remaining prawn into small bits and put them back in the freezer. Keep 1 bit out and use a pr of scissors to cut the prawn into small bits and offer a few bits at a time until the fish are full.

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re: fish in pain. If the fish stops eating then it is usually past the point of return and that is when they should be euthanized.