Planaria Or Detritus Worms?

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks Charlie!! I will look at those links pronto. For the panacur, would half a tablet be enough for a 5 gallon tank? Or would you recommend a bit more? I also did the hydrogen peroxide with the Hydra. I took everybody out of the tank and dumped 16oz in. I was so tired from not feeling well though that I left it for a full 24 hours before cleaning the canister and doing the major water changes and such. My plants all melted. The crypts are coming back though. Not sure about my amazing anubias plants that lost most of their leaves....poor things.

Anyway, maybe I should go the panacur route...though I'm still up for trying the aquarium salt at 1 tablespoon for the 5 gallons just to see if it works. I know it won't bother the snails.

All mine are horned nerites. I have two in my 10 gallon and they are amazing. I think they are around a year and a half old! I haven't fed them anything and they keep the tank clean. I think they are pretty big for horned as my other ones aren't that big. I've seen them next to the spray bar before...but not all together or this much. I know some planaria can kill snails so I've read but maybe being out of the water a bit like they are is helping. Something has to be done though! I just can't catch a break it seems.

Also...are these seaweed wraps in the frozen or fresh sections or would they be dry? Not sure where to look to see if we have them....lol.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Found some info from another forum but I don't think I can post the link because of that. Basically someone found (hopefully) a good way to measure out the panacure that comes in 1 gram packets. Basically you need 0.1 gram per 10 gallons. This person took 200ml of water and poured anentire packet in after crushing it up into a better powder. Then he shook the crap out of the bottle and with a syringe, pulled out 20ml of this mixture for a 10 gallon tank. If mixed well it should contain the 0.1 gram needed. Now...do you think this is a good idea? Obviously for my 5 gallon I would only dose 10ml of this mixture. This person also shot it directly on any visible planaria/Hydra and also shot it down into the substrate. I'm not sure if this is needed.

So...do you think doing it this way would work ok? I'm sure I can find this stuff for sell someplace close.. I almost want to do this now more than aquarium salt if it truly does work and I don't know if the salt will. So should I try this method?

 

[Ch4rlie]

That idea with the syringe and bottle is good, wish I saw that before I treated my tank

 
I got my panacur as tablet form, but if you can get sactchet in powered form, that would be ideal actually. And also he measurements sounds about right tbh, though it was quite a while ago and my memory is not all that

 
I would not dose with salt. Large dosages of salt is fatal for snails and inverts.
 
Stick with one treatment of your choice and do not try to mix too many meds, as this is not generally a good idea to try a mixture of treatments.
 
As for the aramanth leaves, i use this -
 
http/www.theshrimptank.com/woods-leaves-natural-products/tantora-amaranth-leaves/
 
They have a range of other products as well, so am sure you'll find that site pretty good as well. My shrimps and snails LOVE the aramanth leaves

 
The seafood wrap that Baccus speaks of, is the same stuff thats used for wrapping around sushi 

 

[Baccus]

The seaweed wraps for Sushi are in dry form and should be found in any Asian type shop or that section of normal grocery shops. Another thing to try is Indian Almond leaves these also have medicinal properties.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks guys! I've already got some Indian almond leaves so after the treatment I'll stick one in there for them. I've been meaning to put one in there for a while.

Now, in regards to the treatment....do I need only one dose? If I need more...do I do a water change first(if so how much?)? How long in between treatments should I wait if I need to do more than one? I've read possibly 48 hours? Would that be right?

 

[cowgirluntamed]

No!! Now he's got dropsy!! Fed him this morning and noticed slightly raised scales. An hour later(now) he looks to be a little bloated as well. I'm going to do a 50% water change immediately. I will add in an Indian almond leaf too. I still have to go get dewormer though but I wanted to do this water change first. I think this might be caused by a parasitic infection. Not sure. I'm going to treat for the planaria today hopefully and then look at meds when I go to Petsmart too. All I have is api triple sulfa and api tetracycline. I don't know if either of these antibiotics could treat the bacteria that cause dropsy?

I tested his water too and that is ok.
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate-10


Also....snails are out and about right now. Don't know if that will last long.


I really hope this isn't tuberculosis either....he did have Popeye recently but it went away. And those cyst things...saw one in his chin again but it was odd by the time I did the water change. Possibly moving, not sure. Will the dewormer treat external parasites too??

 

[Ch4rlie]

Hmm, this is getting complicated is'nt it
 
To answer your query re the worming treatment, i had to dose my tank twice to get rid of all the worms i had. Treated the second dose 48 hours after the first treatment.
 
Doing water change before hand will not do a lot tbh but will give clean water for the betta which is always a good thing, i am a firm believer in good water quaility being almost as good as medications in some cases, but in the case of dropsy, if this is indeed what it is, then thats a different ball game in terms of treatments.
 
Am afraid I do not know enough of dropsy for teatments and i will not give any advice on this in case i get it wrong, sometimes giving the wrong advice can be the worst thing to do.
 
Hopefully someone can give a much better answer than me, sorry

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks charlie. I figured it wouldn't hurt to do a change just to be sure. So far he's laying on his betta hammock. I managed to get some sage guard wormer(same ingredient as panacur) and just dosed the tank. I did a bit of reading on dropsy and it doesn't look good. But it can come about by parasites so I'm hoping that this wormer will help if he has any. Other than that I'll have to get an antibiotic to maybe treat it. Some say salt some say no salt but I don't want to do a bunch of stuff at once obviously. So for not it's the wormer. I may dose again on Thursday with it just be sure as long as he makes it then. I hope I see improvement from this though. I know treating the cause of dropsy is the most important so I hope the parasites are the cause!

I know I'm never going to put plants in my tanks again without a few hour alum bath and even a dewormer treatment!! That's the only thing I can think of on how the came to ne in the tank. Though I still don't know how I don't see any in the 20 gallon with the same plants. I may be staring at that one a lot later to see...

 

[cowgirluntamed]

He's still hanging in there! Still staying on his hammock. When I checked tonight and turned the room lights on he wasn't on it. Don't know if I startled him but he swam around a tiny bit before going back to the hammock. I may be optimistic but I think the swelling might be down a tiny bit. Wasn't for sure. Pineconing is still there. But he's a fighter!

 

[NickAu]

Sorry I missed the pineconing bit earlier. First thing do not feed him for a few days.
 

Pineconing is still there.

You fish sounds like hes got early stages SBD. Swim bladder disease, The best way to treat this is with an Epsom salt bath.
 
If you are using Aquarium salt stop it at once as it wont help
 

How to prepare (any) dip for your fish:

Prepping for the dip is the same for either salt type. You will need:

• a clean fish-only 1 gallon container
• a smaller container
• Water conditioner
• a measuring spoon
• thermometer
• net
• your undivided attention!
• watch/timer/alarm
• salt per your needs

Here's what you need to do:

•   
• Fill your gallon container very fully with clean, treated water. Make sure the water is the same temperature as the water the fish came from in its tank via the thermometer. This prevents temperature shock.
    
• Add the salt per recommendation and stir it until it is fully dissolved.
    
• Get a second container with 1/4 salted water like your 1 gallon tank, and the rest (3/4) with tank water (this is the "reviving station").
    
• Carefully get your fish from its home and gently put it into the water. You must make sure that the fish does not pass out! You can tell if a fish has conked out if it is no longer breathing (look at its gills, by the eyes) or if it lists to the side and becomes still. It may knock out due to the sudden change in salinity (saltiness) of the water, but can be revived.
    
• *If the fish passes out or becomes extremely stressed, remove it! Carefully but hastily put the fish into your reviving station to revive. Then, put it into its home again and try the dip another time.
    
• If the fish is not super stressed and does not pass out, be very attentive during the recommended time in the dip as the fish may jump due to discomfort or stress. Pay close attention to how long the fish has been in the dip and do not exceed the time!
    
• Once the fish is finished, put it into the reviving station to adjust back to more normal water parameters. Then, without pouring the salty water into your tank, put the fish back into its home to recover.

Epsom Salt is magnesium sulfate, which you may know as a saline (salt) laxative or a remedy to reduce swelling for humans. It is easily found nearly anywhere, often in first aid aisles and even in gas stations! Please note that humans use Epsom as a means to relax when infused into bathwater, so sometimes it has dyes or is scented. Please only use unscented, undyed Epsom when medicating your fish!

What's Epsom do?:
Epsom has a bunch of uses. Not surprisingly, its uses in fish are very similar to its uses in humans. When used properly in fish, it can act as a laxative as well as a means to reduce swelling. If used correctly in fish that have swim bladder disorder (SBD), epsom can help them swim better and even be able to sink.

What does this mean for my fish?:
These qualities mean you can help a bloated or constipated fish expel backed up waste and feel good again, as well as reduce swelling that may be caused by disease or infection. The swelling Epsom can assist with includes: popeye, external wound infection swelling, and in some cases relieve pressure from dropsy.

How much of this salt per gallon do I use?:
For Epsom, you use 1 TABLEspoon (TBSP) per gallon of water. This is three TEAspoons (TSP).

How long does the betta stay in this mixture?:
In Epsom, the betta should stay in for 10-15 minutes, with 10 being less severe need and 15 being a more severe need. Never exceed this time!

How long should my fish be left to acclimate before going back into its tank in this mixture?:
Acclimate your fish (see below) for 2-5 minutes before going back to avoid shock.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks Nick! I'm not using aquarium salt. Just did thedewormer treatment. So...to get this straight....a container to hold one gallon of water(treated, same temp) and put 1 tablespoon of Epsom salt and mix well. I do have Epsom salt already so that's good. Then....i need another container with 1/4 of the salted water(can this be from the other container after its mixed before putting him in there if the water is high enough in the original bath container?) And then 3/4 tank water.

Also...should I use a net to get him out or like a bowl or spoon? I don't want to damage his scales at all. So I was thinking a spoon maybe?


And then...should I only leave him in for 10 mins to start with then into the 2nd container for the 2-5 mins before going back in his tank? Is this only once a day or more than that?


And should I do this asap or wait until morning when his lights come on? I can do it now if I need to since I'm not working tonight!

 

[NickAu]

 
Also...should I use a net to get him out or like a bowl or spoon? I don't want to damage his scales at all. So I was thinking a spoon maybe?

Netting is OK but if you can cup him its better.
 
make sure its unscented epsom salt.
 
I guess you can wait till daylight, but do not feed him it will only add to the problem,

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Ok, I will try cup him first and hope that works. It should be unscented as I bought this for a bloated guppy a while back but I will double check to make sure.

If you think it's best to treat him now I can. I just didn't know if doing this at night might stress him more or not. But I can wait if you think thats better too.

Also, do I only need to do this once a day as symptoms persist or more than once? I'll do what I need to to help my little guy!!

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Ok, I did his first Epsom salt bath for 10 minutes and then put him in the revival container for 5, then back in his tank. He did good. He is now laying on the bottom of the tank though but upright. He can swim to the top, but I think he just wants to rest. I will keep an eye on him through out the day though.

Good news for the dewormer treatment. The snails are all out and about again! I will do one more treatment tomorrow though just to make sure I got everything.

I really hope everything will work out and that Aidan, my "little fire", will pull through!

 

[NickAu]

Ok, Keep an eye on him for now don't feed him for 2 days see if it helps.