Me Again! Algae/plant Question.

[Jaymz]

Heyhey all, I'm back with another long-winded question .

So I've got my new Venezia 190 set up, moved all my fish and plants over (Running one mature and one maturing filter) about two/three weeks ago. I'm using TetraPlant Complete Subs, 2 DIY C02 reactors with a Spiro 3000 diffusor, and 2x24W PowerGlo tubes.

I'm not at home at the moment, (Uni), but will be back in two weeks for the Christmas season, so any advice will have to be passed on by me to my Dad. Just so you know.

Anyway, I'm getting reports of green spots of algae on the plants, glass and diffusor, and apparently the plants I have aren't doing ''too well'' (For now only 2 Java Ferns and one similar plant which I've forgotten the name of)
Now could the suffering plants be due to the fact they've been moved around a lot recently during my tank movement, thus their slower growth allowing algae to take over? Or am I doing something wrong with the lighting/c02/ferts? (Proftio, 10ml twice a week)

Would I be right in saying I should stop injecting C02 with my 1WPG (Correct?) setup? Or would more plants help supress it? Or perhaps changing the lights? (I hear PowerGlo are intensive with the blue part of the spectrum, which isn't good when it coms to algae)

Any help is welcome and I'll answer anything you need to know, sorry about rambling, I tend to do that.

Many thanks.

 

[SuperColey1]

CO2 will increase growth even at 1WPG.

The light drives the speed of plants but they adapt to the level of CO2 as well. this is why it is so important to maintain a stable level of CO2 because otherwise if the CO2 is up and down the plants are continually adapting to the level and therefore not growing at which point algae grows.

I would've thought with your light level there shouldn't be a need for CO2 which I assume is letting the plants grow a little faster and this is partly the cause of the GSA.

Because the plants are growing a little faster they are asking for more nutrient and as the ProFito has zero phosphate you are getting GSA due to phosphate defficiency.

So what I would suggest is to forget the CO2 for a couple of weeks and see how the plants do. They may (after a week or so) suddenly find that as they are growing a little slower that there is sufficient phosphate from fish waste, fishfood and in the tap water (water change.)

If not you need to add some.

ProFito list the following as one of its 'advantages'!!!!:
free of nitrates and phosphates

This statement should ring alarm bells!!!! Any fert manufacturer that lists this as an advantage does not know too much about plants!!! This is a very common problem with off the shelf fertilisers in that they are still going by outdated and proven wrong theories of excess nutrients (namely N and P) cause algae. In fact they don't. Algae feeds off these just as plants do but is not caused by it.

Nitrate and Phosphate are very important for plant growth. They are both macro nutrients along with Potassium. The 3 of these (NPK) along with CO2 (Carbon = C) are the most important foods for the plants. The trace elements that so many fertilisers seem to think are the most important are in fact secondary!!! They are needed but in massively smaller quantities than the macros.

So remove the CO2. Give the tank a couple of weeks to let the tank 'adapt' and then see what the result is. If you need to get the CO2 on again then I would suggest adding NPK and using the ProFito as trace!!!

AC

 

[aaronnorth]

Doesnt the Venezia come with HOT5 tubes?

 

[SuperColey1]

Good spot Aaron....after a quick search it seems it does!!! CO2 defo needed then. DIY won't work too well on a tank that size either!!

AC

 

[Jaymz]

@ SuperColey - It was my intention to replace the current plants I have with other low-lighters from Aqua Essential, will having more require that I use the co2 again, or does it make no difference?

Also, could you give me some idea of a good place to get NPK from? I was looking at Aqua Essentials and while they have the three different products, it looks a tad... complex, what with all the different dosage instructions and whatnot.

Doesnt the Venezia come with HOT5 tubes?

Sorry forgot to say, they're T-5 bulbs yes.

Many thanks people.

 

[aaronnorth]

If you are wanting a simple all in one fertiliser then go with tropica plant nutrition+

It contains NPK & trace, dose daily at the rate of 5ml per 100l (adjust as necassary to suit your plant growth). It can get costly on a large tank so a DIY option is also viable:
http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

Mixing up your own solutions is good as you can calibrate them to provide the amount of nutrients that you want. see here for more info:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=104737

 

[Jaymz]

If you are wanting a simple all in one fertiliser then go with tropica plant nutrition+

It contains NPK & trace, dose daily at the rate of 5ml per 100l (adjust as necassary to suit your plant growth). It can get costly on a large tank so a DIY option is also viable:
[URL="http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm"]http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm[/URL]

Mixing up your own solutions is good as you can calibrate them to provide the amount of nutrients that you want. see here for more info:
[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=104737"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=104737[/URL]

It's probably easier for me to buy it, although daily dosing sounds a pain (and a costly one at that).

How about the co2 then, now we know it's a requirement in my tank? It's two DIY kits (sufficient for 200l apparently) and they're changed weekend/mid-week one at a time. From my monitoring when I was at home the flow from the Spiro didn't seem to fluctuate much but I guess that's no real indication of actual co2 diffusion into the water. My parents would much rather not have the fire extinguisher idea go down, and to be honest I'd prefer not too, as not being at home would make me uneasy about not being able to keep tabs on it.

 

[Jaymz]

Ok, how does this sound -

Start using the NPK ferts rather than the ProFito stuff unless I use it as a trace (Could someone explain trace to me, actually, thanks)
Get a pressurised co2 kit rather than the DIY stuff I'm using. I was looking at this (any experience/opinions) or the JBL systems, either the Easy1/2 or the ProFlora ones. Could I ask which of the JBL would be suited for my tank size? (190l)

Then in time get more plants to make all this worthwhile.

Sound good?

Many thanks.

 

[SuperColey1]

Trace elements are basically metals that most living things need including the fish and us. Things like Iron, magnesium, zinc, boron etc. They are called trace elements because only teeny amounts are needed. We also call these micronutrients. Then there are the macro nutrients (NPK & C) of which a lot is needed. N&P can be supplied in the form of Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) and Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4.) C is provided of course from CO2.

Therefore what we are adding is N - Nitrogen, P - Phosphate, K - Potassium and C - Carbon. On top of this we add trace amounts of the metals.

At the moment you are only providing the K and then traces. You are relying on the fish and their waste + fishfood to provide the N and P. Whilst this does provide N and P its not nearly enough to suffice.

If you like that setup which is a disposable setup I can give you links to buy all the bits and it will work out much cheaper whilst having better components. The cyclinders for example can be bought from Halfords for £10 (welding CO2 is the same as aquarium CO2.)

The JBL kits are very expensive.

And yes more plants would make it a lot more worthwhile.

Take a look at as many planted tanks as possible and see if your interest in the hobby is enough for you to want to invest in things like CO2.

AC

 

[Jaymz]

Oh yessir I'm interested in keeping plants for sure. I had a few in my last tank and they got along merrily tThese are the same as I have now in fact) but now I've upgraded my tank I'm at a bit of a loose end now they seem to be dying off.

I think the disposable setup would be better, as I'm away at Uni it'll be easier for my Father to work with rather than mixing DIY stuff twice a week, so if you could show me the way for this pressurised system you mentioned, I shouldn't be too much of a pain so long as it's not like doing brain surgery.

Many many thanks.

 

[SuperColey1]

As said the bottles are in Halfords for £10 each. Make sure you get CO2 and not CO2/Argon mix or Argon. It says welding CO2 so in effect the label on the aquarium retialers cost £8-£10!!!!!

WELDUK - Regulator for disposable bottles:
http/www.welduk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=417 (Unscrew the bit in the front as you don't need it.

AQUARIANVERSAND - Needle valve, Solenoid valve and hose:
http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/CO2-Feinnadelventil-...1742.m153.l1262

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Profi-CO2-Nachtabsch...1742.m153.l1262

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/CO2-Schlauch-2-0-m_W...1742.m153.l1262

Basically this is all you need for the setup.

When you get the regulator you unscrew the attachment in the front of it and then screw in the needle valve. Then attach 2" piece of the hose to the needle valve outlet and the other end to the solenoid valve. The other end of the needle valve back to the hose and away to an NRV/bubble counter and then onto the diffuser.

Definately need a Drop checker with 4dKH solution in it and a bromo blue Ph based kit to make sure you can se how your CO2 is.

A timer to plug the solenoid valve into would be a good idea and then you can just leave it running forever. The first week or so after starting pressurised will be a little tinkering after which point you should be able to just forget about it for months unless your drop checker tells you something is wrong.

AC

 

[Jaymz]

Looks excellent, a lot cheaper than I thought they'd be as well. Is this the kind of stuff you use yourself? Just in case I need some assistance when it comes to setting it up (which I no doubt will )

I'll have to put this on hold for as long as I can as I have to get my car through its MOT in a week or so, but I'll look to be getting all this as soon as I can after that, it doesn't help that Christmas is coming either...

I'll try and shift my old tank to get some fundings together, and I'll go to AquaEssentials for the drop checker/bubble counter no doubt.

So if I fall silent please don't think I've dismissed your advice, I just need a bit more spare cash to spend on it. But hopefully that should be no longer than a fortnight, fingers crossed.

Many thanks.

EDIT: Apparently the algae is getting worse, is there anything I can advise my parents do while I'm away? Stop the co2, cut down in the light?

Cheers.

 

[SuperColey1]

My setup is as all the above links piece by piece:

As for algae. reducing lights is always the easiest way. Light is the driver for plants and therefore if the plants are being driven more slowly then their nutrient uptake is less which means that any defficiencies are lessened or diminished.

Of course the algae will then grow more slowly too!!! If you can clear all the rotting leaves out and this reduction removes all the defficiencies then algae 'should' start to disappear too.

If you can reduce the lights to half their wattage and only ever run at 8 hours long then after a week where the algae gets worse (because the plants take longer to adapt to the light change than algae) then it should start to sort itself out after that period.

AC

 

[Jaymz]

Okido then I'll pass that advice on to my parents and get them to keep me posted.

As I say I won't be able to get anything done myself for about a week now, so don't think I've ignored anything you've said, no doubt I'll be back here when I get all the equipment together to update with how it's going.

Many thanks!

EDIT: Is ordering from that eBay shop easy? I've never used eBay until this and it's all in German, so it's making me a bit worried about using it.

Cheers.

 

[Jaymz]

Ok I'm back home, should be getting the stuff ordered at the end of this week, Christmas is sapping my limited funding.

A quick question, when I get this new liquid fert and the co2 system set up, how's best to tackle the algae? Will it receed on its own or does it need to be dealt with directly? There's black hair (or something similar) on the leaf edges, and green/brown spot on the glass, though not much.

EDIT: I found the solenoid valve in English from the same supplier, but can't find the needle valve in anything except German (they only deliver to Germany from that 'version', so I sent a message about shipping costs. Would you happen to know the link for the English version of the needle valve? That way I can just order it simply without back-and-forthing with e-mails to the supplier.

Sorry to be picky!

Many thanks.