Is There Such A Thing As Too Much Dechlorinator

[LilyRose Tank]

I just stumbled on a thought, to make sure the tap water on my last full water change didnt kill off my bacteria or put them into sleep mode, i was overdosing slightly every panfull going in to the tank...Is it possible I put too much in and stalled the rest of the cycle from progressing?

 

[scotty]

good question,wonder if anyone has the answer

 

[Truck]

You can't really over dose, if you did you would have to use a lot of it. over dosing by 2 or 3 times will do no harm.

 

[LilyRose Tank]

OK Truck, thanks x

 

[Defiance]

Hiya's,
Also though it's posted around (not searched for it but seen it said in posts) ........

I come from a koi background, i always use pond treatments for tap water, never had a problem in all the years working with koi pools and also no problems thus far with tropical fish, just that i very carefully check and double check the amount required

Obviously you get more for your money eg: today i spent £9.95 on a pool treatment that treats 2500 gallon of tap water, also had the vitamin B1 etc in it, the equiv treatment size solely for aquarium use would of cost me over £40 and only treat roughly 600 gallon

But if anyone else has used pool treatments with ill effects and posts i'll maybe think twice in the future

Tony

ps: On some large koi pools years ago where i couldn't get a real accurate gallonage i would overdo the dosage i guess, again with no ill effect, but some koi pools were pretty huge though lol

 

[waterdrop]

I feel the weight of opinions and articles on TFF is that 1.5x or 2x dosing of conditioner is a good precaution for the sometimes occurance of water authorities that overdose chlorine products. The other problem though as that we have statements by Hovanec that he feels that going over 2x conditioner dosing causes a slowdown in N-Bac growth (Nitrospira spp., the bacteria for which he, Hovanec, was the discoverer that it indeed -was- our primary N-Bac species.) This is why I frequently repeat that we should try to limit our overdosing to 2x on conditioner. (That said, I have to admit that for smaller tanks I would probably only go to the trouble of careful measuring for the period of the fishless cycle. After the fishless cycle, when you already have a robust filter, I would not bother with measuring the tiny amounts involved for a small tank, I would just do a single threadline in the cap or something like that (for a concentrated conditioner like Prime, which I usually assume most beginners are using.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LilyRose Tank]

thank you waterdrop. I shall do a 50% waterchange and see if it helps. Hope your son's swim meet went ok, and the snow wasn't too bad x

 

[raptorrex]

whilst fully accepting waterdrops comments. one thing worries me.

if you add water by a python system. it is advised to add de-chlorinator to the volume of the tank, not of the water you are adding. this results in, far, more than 2x overdose. how do we square that circle? to be fair, i have only just started using de-chlorinator again, after several years without.

 

[waterdrop]

BBB, I feel you are entirely correct about the "differential dosing" thing.. ie. where if you dose via bucket your dosing amount is per the bucket whereas if you refill directly via Python or hose, you dose according to tank volume.

In answer to your question, I feel there would be no problem whatsoever with 2x dosing to the tank volume as I don't feel this represents an overdose but is exactly the type of action expected by Hovanec when he commented. In other words, 2x conditioner (but trying not to let it be more) at tank volume should be the dilution he expected to not cause a problem. My impression was also that this is a fairly slight effect on the Nitrospira anyway, so I think the important thing is that we just take care to stay -close- to 2x as opposed to freely dumping in conditioner with the feeling it can't hurt anything.

Incidently, the disappointment to me with Python technique (which I still use and love) is that it causes such big CO2 swings, which was something I had never thought of or known about. That definately encourages BBA in planted tanks that don't run pressurized...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[raptorrex]

Incidently, the disappointment to me with Python technique (which I still use and love) is that it causes such big CO2 swings, which was something I had never thought of or known about. That definately encourages BBA in planted tanks that don't run pressurized...

~~waterdrop~~

I, my, have a solution. crimping the end of the outlet! i use this system, even now, to remove chlorine and co2. if you do this the water sprays out, this forces both chlorine and co2 out, as the co2 is replaced, partially, by o2, and the chlorine gasses off. not a compleate solution, but it helps.

 

[waterdrop]

Very interesting! I wonder if I could rig a "Pre-bucket" (like, say, a bucket on a board above the tank that is siphoning into the tank) and then let the Python do a furious input spray into that bucket and then have that bucket gently siphon into the tank. Do you think it would really get rid of most of the excess CO2 just to have it spray once prior to go into the tank? I don't know enough about that gas exchange to know the answer. WD

 

[raptorrex]

Very interesting! I wonder if I could rig a "Pre-bucket" (like, say, a bucket on a board above the tank that is siphoning into the tank) and then let the Python do a furious input spray into that bucket and then have that bucket gently siphon into the tank. Do you think it would really get rid of most of the excess CO2 just to have it spray once prior to go into the tank? I don't know enough about that gas exchange to know the answer. WD

well, CO2 is replaced with O2, some call it "gassing off". and, yes, as far as i can see, a spray bar, or a crimp like mine, will work. though, like you, I'm no chemistry wiz. certainly the explanation, to me, by bignose, on the subject of CO2 "gassing off", seems to bare this out. thats why i put "may" in my first reply. I'm sure it can not be as simple as that, to eliminate the problem. but it will go some way towards it.

it may be worth expanding this with your "planted crew". many minds make light work, sort of thing. if nothing else, its worth following up. sometimes there are simple fixes for the most complicated, looking, problems.

 

[backtotropical]

If I'm understanding your theory correctly here (spraying water vigorously into a bucket to rid it of CO2 before adding it to the tank), then I believe that this would work.

One thing I will point out though is that it has been suggested here that the CO2 is replaced with O2. I don't believe the equation is as linear as that. Whilst surface movement does saturate the water with O2 and gas off CO2, I believe they don't replace each other, but instead happen very independently of each other.

On the other hand, Bignose does always report that everything always strives towards equilibrium, so if CO2 disappears, I suppose it may be "replaced", but I'm not exactly sure what with or how.

I'm more confused now than when I started typing this!

 

[raptorrex]

If I'm understanding your theory correctly here (spraying water vigorously into a bucket to rid it of CO2 before adding it to the tank), then I believe that this would work.

One thing I will point out though is that it has been suggested here that the CO2 is replaced with O2. I don't believe the equation is as linear as that. Whilst surface movement does saturate the water with O2 and gas off CO2, I believe they don't replace each other, but instead happen very independently of each other.

On the other hand, Bignose does always report that everything always strives towards equilibrium, so if CO2 disappears, I suppose it may be "replaced", but I'm not exactly sure what with or how.

I'm more confused now than when I started typing this!

you seem to see, much of, it as i do. a, possible/partial though not definitive, solution. as i see the comments, from, Bignose. unless used, elsewhere, CO2 is replaced by O2.
aeration is also listed as a method of CO2 reduction, for some commercial efforts.

lol, the term "equilibrium" pops up time and time again, on this subject. and not just on here.

 

[waterdrop]

No, I think you're right on the mark BTT. I too remember discussions that O2 concentration levels in water are largely independent of CO2 concentration levels. In the current subject of course the point is getting rid of the excess CO2 (just as if you had let it gas off overnight) and any pickup of O2 would just be a bonus but not a necessary thing.

I've actually been trying to think through why the CO2 fluctuation issue (with Python fillings) would *not* be an issue if one were doing pressurized. Would it be that the CO2 levels were higher to begin with so the tap water coming in would not be causing an "up" fluctuation? I remember that there are CO2 variations day to night in typical pressurized setups but I can't remember how the graph of CO2 across 24 hours would end up looking in a typical well-maintained pressurized setup. (?)

~~waterdrop~~