Hello, Forum! New Member Here With Questions Regarding New Tank Cl

[Osage_Winter]

Hello, Forum!

New member here that has some questions regarding my new tank and its refusal to exhibit clear water; I was hoping someone could lend some insight, as it would be greatly appreciated...

My wife and I purchased a rectangular 60-gallon recently, and set it up properly with the matching canopy on top, washing the gravel thoroughly in addition to the plants and pirate/shipwreck decorations. We purchased an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 filter, which I was told would be okay for a 60-gallon tank, as well as a couple of connecting bubble wands (which aren't working too well connected to a Tetra Whisper air pump), but the problem is, it's going on almost five days, approximately, now and the water has not cleared up with the filter running nonstop. The water is that typical cloudy/milky-white color and I have been researching this to be "bacterial bloom" which seems normal, according to varying sites. I am wondering how long it takes to clear up cloudy water in a fishless brand new tank, and if it's normal to be going on longer than three or so days...

The cartridges in the filter are definitely set up right, as is the biological grid that sits on the waterfall ledge of the tank, and the water seems to be pumping into the tank from the filter just fine. We have also added Aqueon water conditioner, per the instructions on the back of the bottle, with the correct amount for 60 gallons. Is there anything I need to do in order to clear up the cloudy water right now, or is it a matter of waiting? I have also read that some new tanks should get "starter fish" so they can begin populating the tank with good bacteria, and the cycle process can speed up, but I am uncertain of putting fish in at this point -- I would rather wait until the water is clear, if that is possible.

We are uncertain if we're going with fancy goldfish or tropicals for this tank yet, but it will definitely be freshwater. If anyone could lend any insight or suggest any tips, it would be extremely appreciated.

Thank you in advance!

 

[fluffycabbage]

Hiya - firstly you need to read this,fully. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/
Then if you have any questions post here again

Oh and dont add any fish yet!!

 

[AstonN24vantage]

welcome!

 

[PaBucsFan]

Welcome to the forums where a vast amount of information is at your fingertips! I would be slightly shocked if you were experiencing an bacteria bloom just 5 days in but I could be wrong. Hope it clears up and I would suggest a fish-less cycle and get a test kit if you have not already purchased one.

 

[Osage_Winter]

Hiya - firstly you need to read this,fully. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/
Then if you have any questions post here again

Oh and dont add any fish yet!!

Thanks, cabbage! I am definitely not adding fish yet -- we want to get the cloudy water issue under control first.

welcome!

Thank you!

Welcome to the forums where a vast amount of information is at your fingertips! I would be slightly shocked if you were experiencing an bacteria bloom just 5 days in but I could be wrong. Hope it clears up and I would suggest a fish-less cycle and get a test kit if you have not already purchased one.

Thanks Bucs Fan!

BTW, are you a TAMPA BAY Bucs fan?

Regarding the bacterial bloom, I don't know what else this could possibly be, outside of debris from overly dirty gravel or perhaps a decoration that's causing some problems; it could also very well be that our water in this state is just loaded with horrible elements, and the filter is having a devil of a time getting rid of it...

We are definitely going to keep the tank fishless until this is resolved -- no question or worry there. But will this cloudy water clear up over time, just letting the filter run? How long can a brand new tank go on cloudy like this -- can it be more than the five days we've experienced it? Can it honestly be weeks or months?

 

[curlyriff]

Hiya - firstly you need to read this,fully. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/
Then if you have any questions post here again

Oh and dont add any fish yet!!

Thanks, cabbage! I am definitely not adding fish yet -- we want to get the cloudy water issue under control first.

welcome!

Thank you!

Welcome to the forums where a vast amount of information is at your fingertips! I would be slightly shocked if you were experiencing an bacteria bloom just 5 days in but I could be wrong. Hope it clears up and I would suggest a fish-less cycle and get a test kit if you have not already purchased one.

Thanks Bucs Fan!

BTW, are you a TAMPA BAY Bucs fan?

Regarding the bacterial bloom, I don't know what else this could possibly be, outside of debris from overly dirty gravel or perhaps a decoration that's causing some problems; it could also very well be that our water in this state is just loaded with horrible elements, and the filter is having a devil of a time getting rid of it...

We are definitely going to keep the tank fishless until this is resolved -- no question or worry there. But will this cloudy water clear up over time, just letting the filter run? How long can a brand new tank go on cloudy like this -- can it be more than the five days we've experienced it? Can it honestly be weeks or months?

The other members are pointing you towards a fishless cycle. This means adding certain chemicals to create the right conditions for your fish to live in. This in itself can take 4-8 weeks to do.

If you read up on fishless cycle then you can see what is required to get your tank going.

In regards to the cloudy water there could be a number of reasons. Some questions for you.

Have you had the lights on all the time and/or is it directly next to a window?
Do you have a test kit to check your chemical levels?
Do you know what your tap water chemicals are?
Have you used any liquids to help with the cycle process such as cycle (not recommended)
Have you used anything to condition the water for the tank i.e. to remove the chlorine and heavy metals that are in drinking water?

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[Timmy_Bee]

how 'thoroughly' did you wash the gravel? that's what i would blame if its a milky-cloudy water.
As previous post states, your going to be waiting a few weeks + anyway until your tank has 'cycled'

 

[waterdrop]

Hey there Osage_Winter and Welcome to TFF!

Man are -you- lucky! You have done a little web search no doubt (on your problem) and you've happened to run across not just any little site, but perhaps one of the best possible places you could have ever hoped for, for learning about starting out in the hobby and for sharing and learning lots more as you become an experienced hobbyist.

Your first post is well written and it shows that you and your wife have some concern about "getting it right." That should make for a good match with TFF in my book. We get lots of members who are much farther along when they find this place and they usually say they wish they had found it -at least- before they added their first fish!

Anyway, welcome again and the members up there have already pointed out the Beginners Resource Center where you can begin reading tank startup articles, like the one by Miss Wiggle. Your first real homework assignment should be The Nitrogen Cycle, The Fishless Cycle and The Fish-In Cycle. Its also really fun to read other members threads and participate and to do searches for posts that other members have made or for topics you are thinking about.

The homework assignment will be guiding you probably toward a Fishless Cycle and at the same time beginning to teach you about this core concept of the hobby, the nitrogen cycle. It starts to get some of the hard work out of the way. The only worries preceeding a fishless cycle are a few things about tank positioning, leveling and about the various media that go into your filter and whether your filter is actually adequate to the job and fully to your ultimate liking.

The primary tools of the fishless cycle itself will be a good liquid-reagent based test kit (many of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or a few others) and the "search," the search for the correct household ammonia that is. In the USA that's usually to Ace Hardware or in the UK its usually to Boots or Homebase.

Wish I had a 60G, sounds like a great sized tank!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Gvilleguy]

Hi Osage - welcome to the forum. This place has helped me avoid many pit falls in my first few months. So you are looking at the right forum!

My brand new tank did the "cloudy white water" thing after only 3 days for me. Waterdrop even speculated that some bacteria can feed on the factory residue left over from gluing your tank together. Whatever the reason, when it did not clear up in 2 days or so on its own, I did a 90% water change and that took care of it. So you would not harm anything at this early stage to do a really big water change.

 

[Osage_Winter]

The other members are pointing you towards a fishless cycle. This means adding certain chemicals to create the right conditions for your fish to live in. This in itself can take 4-8 weeks to do.

Thank you, Adam! I understand the members are trying to point me in the right direction; indeed, doing the chemical thing seems a bit daunting to someone like me! In a nutshell, would you be able to tell me which chemicals, specifically, need to be added at this point (six or so days in now)?

In regards to the cloudy water there could be a number of reasons. Some questions for you.

Have you had the lights on all the time and/or is it directly next to a window?

No -- the flourescent light in the strip light beneath the canopy only gets turned on sometimes at night to check the cloudyness; the window to this room is off to a side wall, not near the tank...

Do you have a test kit to check your chemical levels?

No -- do you have one you could recommend that I could pick up at the pet shop?

Do you know what your tap water chemicals are?

No -- but I'm assuming they're bad...

Have you used any liquids to help with the cycle process such as cycle (not recommended)
Have you used anything to condition the water for the tank i.e. to remove the chlorine and heavy metals that are in drinking water?

When I first put the water in and filled the tank, I added Aqueon water conditioner according to the formula based on the number of gallons we have...nothing else.

Thank you again for your continued assistance.

 

[Osage_Winter]

how 'thoroughly' did you wash the gravel? that's what i would blame if its a milky-cloudy water.

Timmy,

How "thoroughly" is debatable; we rinsed it through and through in a bucket, in stages, then drained it before adding it to the tank -- I suppose it's possible it wasn't washed enough, but more than five days have passed since getting and setting up the tank and the water is still cloudy. Could it be possible the gravel is the culprit at this point?

As previous post states, your going to be waiting a few weeks + anyway until your tank has 'cycled'

That's what I have been trying to get at -- if indeed this process of clearing the water will take a few weeks and if that's normal...

 

[Osage_Winter]

Hey there Osage_Winter and Welcome to TFF!

Thank you sir!

Man are -you- lucky! You have done a little web search no doubt (on your problem) and you've happened to run across not just any little site, but perhaps one of the best possible places you could have ever hoped for, for learning about starting out in the hobby and for sharing and learning lots more as you become an experienced hobbyist.

Thank you; indeed we have done some research, and although I have some experience in the hobby from years ago, this was when I was much younger and I need to get familiar with the process again. Still, we had no intentions of putting fish in until this was settled.

Your first post is well written and it shows that you and your wife have some concern about "getting it right." That should make for a good match with TFF in my book. We get lots of members who are much farther along when they find this place and they usually say they wish they had found it -at least- before they added their first fish!

Thanks again; yes, we didn't plan on adding fish until the water problem was clear, at least...

As for the writing, thank you very much for the kind comment; I am a writer by profession, so perhaps that's why the first post came across in such fashion!

Anyway, welcome again and the members up there have already pointed out the Beginners Resource Center where you can begin reading tank startup articles, like the one by Miss Wiggle. Your first real homework assignment should be The Nitrogen Cycle, The Fishless Cycle and The Fish-In Cycle. Its also really fun to read other members threads and participate and to do searches for posts that other members have made or for topics you are thinking about.

I shall do so just as soon as I get a free moment; I just hoped to get some immediate feedback as we have been desperately searching for answers.

The homework assignment will be guiding you probably toward a Fishless Cycle and at the same time beginning to teach you about this core concept of the hobby, the nitrogen cycle. It starts to get some of the hard work out of the way. The only worries preceeding a fishless cycle are a few things about tank positioning, leveling and about the various media that go into your filter and whether your filter is actually adequate to the job and fully to your ultimate liking.

Well, that was going to be my next inquiry -- whether or not this Aqueon QuietFlow 55 is enough for our tank -- according to the packaging, this filter can work for up to 60 gallons, which is what we have. As far as the leveling and media, I think we're okay with that -- the tank is definitely positioned and leveled correctly. We are running the beginner cartridges and carbon packs that came with the filter.

The primary tools of the fishless cycle itself will be a good liquid-reagent based test kit (many of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or a few others) and the "search," the search for the correct household ammonia that is. In the USA that's usually to Ace Hardware or in the UK its usually to Boots or Homebase.

Interesting...I just wish I could wait this out in terms of the cloudyness...

Wish I had a 60G, sounds like a great sized tank!

Thanks! Indeed, it's a nice size, but to be honest, where we put it in our upstairs loft/music/reading room, the wall could have used a bigger tank!

Thanks for all your kind words and assistance thus far!

Hi Osage - welcome to the forum. This place has helped me avoid many pit falls in my first few months. So you are looking at the right forum!

Thank you, Gville!

My brand new tank did the "cloudy white water" thing after only 3 days for me. Waterdrop even speculated that some bacteria can feed on the factory residue left over from gluing your tank together. Whatever the reason, when it did not clear up in 2 days or so on its own, I did a 90% water change and that took care of it. So you would not harm anything at this early stage to do a really big water change.

Thank you for the insight here; wow, that's a big water change after we put all the water in! I will consider this though...

Do you think it's possible the cloudy water will dissipate on its own?

 

[Gvilleguy]

Well, everyone said the water should clear on its own. But I got impatient and did the water change before finding out!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Osage, back again,

You are worrying way too much over the cloudiness. 90% chance its a bacterial bloom, 10% chance its just extra dust from the new substrate. Either way, its not something we would worry about now much at all because there are more important things to do in getting the cycling under way.

Bacterial blooms are harmless and go away on their own, excess substrate dust can be dealt with later.

OK, so let's review your homework: When fish move water through their gills they not only take in oxygen and expel carbon dioxide, they also directly give off ammonia. Fish waste, excess fish food and plant debris are all organic molecules that are broken down by heterotrophic bacteria (the ones in your bacterial bloom probably) and turned into ammonia. In nature, ammonia is diluted by millions of gallons of water.

Ammonia, even in tiny quantities, causes permanent gill damage, leading to shortened lives or death. The first species of bacteria we grow in the filter takes ammonia and processes it in to nitrite(NO2.) Unfortunately, nitrite is better than oxygen at hooking up to the hemoglobin protein on fish red blood cells and when it does it destroys the red blood cell. The effect is like suffocation, with the most immediate effects being permanent nerve and brain damage, leading to shortened lifespan or death.

The second specific species of autotrophic bacteria we grow can convert nitrite(NO2) into nitrate(NO3) which happens to be much less deadly than nitrite(NO2) and can thus stay around in our tanks and be kept under control by weekly water changes. Even though high nitrate(NO3) is not a desirable thing in our tanks, it can be tolerated in relatively high amounts by most species.

Together, these two types of bacteria make up "the biofilter" and perform one of the 3 functions of a filter. (The other two functions are chemical filtration (optional) and mechanical filtration (the traditional catching of particles that most of us already are familiar with.)

The tropical fish hobby had a long history of using the fish themselves as the ammonia source to gradually grow these bacteria in the filter. This history went way back to long before it was actually understood that the bacteria were there or exactly what was happening in the filter. Many fish were lost in the typical process but gradually people got better at it and fewer fish were lost.

In the 1980's a number of hobbyists were also scientists who were using the early internet and in their usenet groups where they would chat, they began discussing a proposal to try using pure ammonia to start the bacterial growing process instead of exposing the fish to the deadly poisons. It took quite a bit of experiementation to finally figure out, years later, that simple household cleaning ammonia (as long as it was pure) was perfectly good for this and gradually a good "recipe" or "formula" was worked out for the process itself.

This "fishless cycling" is now "old hat" and has been working well for people for 20 years, but of course the old "fish-in" cycling has retained a life of its own, as old habits take a long time to die out in hobbies.

Not only is it a very simple and powerful principle to simply not expose the fish before the biofilter is prepared, it is also somewhat easier on the aquarist! When the knowledge is there, the fishless cycle involves testing and watching and perhaps a few large water changes. By contrast, a Fish-In cycle can require sometimes daily water changes for as long as a month or more. In both cases water testing is needed.

OK, that's about as much as I can muster before trying to go find some fun on a Friday night Hope some of that makes sense to you. The reason we focus on getting the right test kit and the right liquid ammonia is so that you can get started on the fishless cycle, since the two species (no matter how you go about it) are themselves the bottleneck, as they are very, very slow growers. But the joy you feel when your new fish go in to that pristine water with you now knowing and understanding that the filter is maintaining what they need and want is all so very worth it! Its a great feeling.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Osage_Winter]

Well, everyone said the water should clear on its own. But I got impatient and did the water change before finding out!

Got-cha.