It can take 3-6 weeks.
Have a friend with a tank? Ask for a bit of their filter media, and you can speed up the process.
Have a friend with a tank? Ask for a bit of their filter media, and you can speed up the process.
Fishless Cycle- Water Query
- Thread starter bretty1984
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bretty1984
Mostly New Member
I wish I did know someone with a tank.
If I went to my LFS and they would be able to sell me media from the tank, what would I have to do with it, and what sort of media would I be looking to get?
Thanks
If I went to my LFS and they would be able to sell me media from the tank, what would I have to do with it, and what sort of media would I be looking to get?
Thanks
Ideally you would be getting some sort of a ceramic or 'bioball'... BUT, anything from their filter will help you.
They MIGHT just give it to you, they might sell it to you, or they might look at you like you are crazy.
More than likely they will try to sell you something. You want to steer clear of most of that stuff as its basically 'snake oil'. There are some products that could be beneficial. Tetra Safe Start or Dr. Tim's One and Only. I wouldn't recommend buying anything else. These CAN be useful, if they aren't expired, have been transported and stored properly.
They MIGHT just give it to you, they might sell it to you, or they might look at you like you are crazy.
More than likely they will try to sell you something. You want to steer clear of most of that stuff as its basically 'snake oil'. There are some products that could be beneficial. Tetra Safe Start or Dr. Tim's One and Only. I wouldn't recommend buying anything else. These CAN be useful, if they aren't expired, have been transported and stored properly.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
The average fishless cycling in which one does not seed any bacteria nor have any live plants in a tank will take about 5 weeks giver or take.
I guess you are not following the fishless cycling article here, so that time frame may or may not apply. You wrote:
Nowhere in the article does it mention adding ammonia every three days. in fact if basically suggests that from start fo finish one will usually be adding 4 doses of ammonia equivalent to 3 ppm and then one maintenance dose of 1 ppm. basically we are talking about adding a total of 13 ppm of ammonia in most cases. Additional ammonia may occasionally be needed at the end to get to the 0/0 level.
The testing regimen is pretty clearly stated as well. You start testing every 3 days, that then drops to 2 days and finally to every day at the end. The first two periods are reduced by a day if one adds a bit of seed bacteria from an established tank.
While some folks here have a tendency to try and alter those directions, I strongly suggest new fish keepers follow them to the letter. They were written to make the process as fail safe as possible. Changing the ammonia amounts and dosing times will changes the outcome. Upping the ammonia will normally result in problems and particularly the potential to accumulate too much nitrite which most kits wont reveal (they dont read high enough) and which will stall or destroy a cycle. Reducing the ammonia may not get one sufficient bacteria to support a full fish load. None of this can happen if one follows the directions to the letter. They were written to make it so these potential negative issues can not occur.
Finally, in a fishless cycle the only time you want to change water is if things go awry. If you accidentally add too much ammonia and need to get some out for example. Also, if the pH drops close to or under 6.5 or your KH heads towards 0 - 1, you change water to restore these things. Other than this, leave the water alone until the cycle is done.
I guess you are not following the fishless cycling article here, so that time frame may or may not apply. You wrote:
Nowhere in the article does it mention adding ammonia every three days. in fact if basically suggests that from start fo finish one will usually be adding 4 doses of ammonia equivalent to 3 ppm and then one maintenance dose of 1 ppm. basically we are talking about adding a total of 13 ppm of ammonia in most cases. Additional ammonia may occasionally be needed at the end to get to the 0/0 level.
The testing regimen is pretty clearly stated as well. You start testing every 3 days, that then drops to 2 days and finally to every day at the end. The first two periods are reduced by a day if one adds a bit of seed bacteria from an established tank.
While some folks here have a tendency to try and alter those directions, I strongly suggest new fish keepers follow them to the letter. They were written to make the process as fail safe as possible. Changing the ammonia amounts and dosing times will changes the outcome. Upping the ammonia will normally result in problems and particularly the potential to accumulate too much nitrite which most kits wont reveal (they dont read high enough) and which will stall or destroy a cycle. Reducing the ammonia may not get one sufficient bacteria to support a full fish load. None of this can happen if one follows the directions to the letter. They were written to make it so these potential negative issues can not occur.
Finally, in a fishless cycle the only time you want to change water is if things go awry. If you accidentally add too much ammonia and need to get some out for example. Also, if the pH drops close to or under 6.5 or your KH heads towards 0 - 1, you change water to restore these things. Other than this, leave the water alone until the cycle is done.
bretty1984
Mostly New Member
Hi,
Thanks for the reply.
Just another update, and to say there is no real change if I am honest. The ammonia is still at around 0.25 and the nitrite is still way over 5.0ppm
So is the general idea to just leave it for now and continue testing every other day?
Should my ammonia reading be 0 yet?
I am concerned that I may have made a mistake yesterday when changing the water, Instead of adding the water conditioner to the water before adding it to the tank, I added the water to the tank then immediately added the conditioner. Could this have caused any damage?
Thanks for the reply.
Just another update, and to say there is no real change if I am honest. The ammonia is still at around 0.25 and the nitrite is still way over 5.0ppm
So is the general idea to just leave it for now and continue testing every other day?
Should my ammonia reading be 0 yet?
I am concerned that I may have made a mistake yesterday when changing the water, Instead of adding the water conditioner to the water before adding it to the tank, I added the water to the tank then immediately added the conditioner. Could this have caused any damage?
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Why are you changing water? Unless something is wrong, do not change any water until the cycling is done.
People really over react to the idea of a bit of chlorine or chloramine in a tank re the bacteria (we are not talking fish here, only the bacteria during cycling). For a start chloramine wont kill the bacteria, it will put it to sleep and once the chloramine breaks down, the ammonia part will gret the bacteria going again faat.
As for chlorine, the amount out of one's tap should not wipe out a bio-filter either. test show that chlorine penetrates the bio-film in which the bacteria live at 1/39th the speed of chloramine. Long before any serious harm would be done the chlorine would out gas from a tank with surface agitation. Now I am referring to the residual chlorine that might be in one's tap, not any amount of chlorine. Since you added the dechlor after the refill you should have no problems at all.
People really over react to the idea of a bit of chlorine or chloramine in a tank re the bacteria (we are not talking fish here, only the bacteria during cycling). For a start chloramine wont kill the bacteria, it will put it to sleep and once the chloramine breaks down, the ammonia part will gret the bacteria going again faat.
As for chlorine, the amount out of one's tap should not wipe out a bio-filter either. test show that chlorine penetrates the bio-film in which the bacteria live at 1/39th the speed of chloramine. Long before any serious harm would be done the chlorine would out gas from a tank with surface agitation. Now I am referring to the residual chlorine that might be in one's tap, not any amount of chlorine. Since you added the dechlor after the refill you should have no problems at all.
bretty1984
Mostly New Member
That's good news that it shouldn't have affected the bacteria.
I managed to get my hands on some established filter media today so I have added that to the tank so hopefully that will help things along.
I managed to get my hands on some established filter media today so I have added that to the tank so hopefully that will help things along.
Established media! 
You added it to the filter, right? That can have a dramatic effect. Be sure to test BOTH ammonia and nitrite daily now, to see where that puts you.
Things can ramp up very fast now depending on the amount of bacteria on the media. Its possible that you could be immediately cycled now, but we'll need to test it with a 3ppm ammonia dose, once you reach double zeros.
You added it to the filter, right? That can have a dramatic effect. Be sure to test BOTH ammonia and nitrite daily now, to see where that puts you.
Things can ramp up very fast now depending on the amount of bacteria on the media. Its possible that you could be immediately cycled now, but we'll need to test it with a 3ppm ammonia dose, once you reach double zeros.
bretty1984
Mostly New Member
The Lfs gave me lots of it and it wouldn't all fit in the filter so I put it in some netting and I have dropped it into the tank.
I figured that the bacteria would still get around the tank and eventually would make its way into the filter. After I had done this I decided to look around on the forum and read some threads where it said it was ok to add it to the tank as it will make it into the filter.
Anyhow, I have done it this way now so there is no going back
/ but I hope it works!!
I figured that the bacteria would still get around the tank and eventually would make its way into the filter. After I had done this I decided to look around on the forum and read some threads where it said it was ok to add it to the tank as it will make it into the filter.
Anyhow, I have done it this way now so there is no going back
/ but I hope it works!!
Well, you can put it into the filter and then it won't be sitting in your tank looking ugly. Just remove ALL your filter media to make room.
It will make its way to the filter, but it will take a LONG time. Putting it into your filter right away means that you could be adding fish to your tank in 2 days or less... leaving it in the tank like that means it won't have as much flow over it, so much of it may die back and you won't see the most benefit.
If you want to remove the filter media and leave the rest in the tank, that's fine too... but ultimately, the issue is that long term, the stuff in the tank just isn't going to stick around... so putting the stuff directly into the filter will be the most efficient way of doing it.
It will make its way to the filter, but it will take a LONG time. Putting it into your filter right away means that you could be adding fish to your tank in 2 days or less... leaving it in the tank like that means it won't have as much flow over it, so much of it may die back and you won't see the most benefit.
If you want to remove the filter media and leave the rest in the tank, that's fine too... but ultimately, the issue is that long term, the stuff in the tank just isn't going to stick around... so putting the stuff directly into the filter will be the most efficient way of doing it.
bretty1984
Mostly New Member
Ok, so when you say remove the media, in the filter I have the sponge at the bottom, a carbon part and then I think they are called biomax (they are white block things) which if these should I remove? And if I do remove them what should I do with them?
bretty1984
Mostly New Member
This media has been in my tank for about 6 hours now. I'm keen to get this into the filter if it will work quicker. Have I left it to long?
The concern would occur after a few DAYS, not hours.
What kind of media did the LFS give you?
Short answer though would be to remove the carbon, as that is completely unnecessary unless removing med - and remove the biomax, leaving the sponge. The sponge will be better as a 'physical' barrier, and the rest will serve the biological process.
The biomax stuff is a great spot for bacteria to live, but they are basically empty now. These can always be added back in over time and just remove the old nasty media from the LFS over the course of the next few months. The key is to only remove a little at a time, and never more than 1/3, but 1/4 is safer.
Your media can be dried out and just put into a container and added back to your tank after you're cycled and the bacteria will colonize it.
What kind of media did the LFS give you?
Short answer though would be to remove the carbon, as that is completely unnecessary unless removing med - and remove the biomax, leaving the sponge. The sponge will be better as a 'physical' barrier, and the rest will serve the biological process.
The biomax stuff is a great spot for bacteria to live, but they are basically empty now. These can always be added back in over time and just remove the old nasty media from the LFS over the course of the next few months. The key is to only remove a little at a time, and never more than 1/3, but 1/4 is safer.
Your media can be dried out and just put into a container and added back to your tank after you're cycled and the bacteria will colonize it.
bretty1984
Mostly New Member
They gave me stuff that was very similar to this.
http
/fishkeeper.co.uk/site/product/aquamanta-biopro-filter-media-42g
They gave me around two handfuls of it!
http
/fishkeeper.co.uk/site/product/aquamanta-biopro-filter-media-42gThey gave me around two handfuls of it!
Link is not working, but based on the name, I assume its mostly a ceramic or similar...
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