ZephyrStarPlaties
Fish Crazy
Yes this is a different question than my last one; I just got a brand new 20 gallon! The thing is, I have old filter media but it hasn't been in water for about a month. Can the bacteria in the filter live without water?
Do I Need To Cycle This Tank?
- Thread starter ZephyrStarPlaties
- Start date
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
It is possible. Not all of them will survive. How many might depends on how well fed they were when they spnge was allowed to dry and then how hot or cold they were allowed to get since. But if some have survived, they would take some time to revive. They would help get a tank cycled faster than no seeding but they may not speed things up a whole lot depending on how many survived. The survival rate would be way way higher if they had remained in a moist environment. It is much more likely that some of the spore forming bacteria that cohabit the bio-film would be viable.
Try using the media and doing a fishless cycle. Use a lower ammonia level (2-4 ppm), dos for this once and do not redose until nitrites appear. Then dose 1/4-1/2 of the original amount ever 2-3 days until the nitrites zero out, the nitrates rise and the tank is cycled. You will see how it goes and can report back. if the bacteria are at all viable your tank should cycle faster than expected from a fishless cycle without any seed bacteria added
Try using the media and doing a fishless cycle. Use a lower ammonia level (2-4 ppm), dos for this once and do not redose until nitrites appear. Then dose 1/4-1/2 of the original amount ever 2-3 days until the nitrites zero out, the nitrates rise and the tank is cycled. You will see how it goes and can report back. if the bacteria are at all viable your tank should cycle faster than expected from a fishless cycle without any seed bacteria added
OP
OP
ZephyrStarPlaties
Fish Crazy
Ok, I'll just have to see how it affects the cycle once it's done. Thanks for the fast reply!
If it has dried out, I'd just assume that all the cycling bacteria are dead. The cycling bacteria are very well adapted to live in the environment we give them in our tanks -- slightly warmer than room temperature, wet, well-oxygenated, with nitrogenous wastes to oxidize for energy. Remove them from any of that, and they just don't survive well. Other bacteria more adapted to survive in those other conditions thrive.
So, like I said, I'd just assume they are all dead. It is not impossible something like 1 or 5% survived, but I'm not sure that that helps all that much anyway,
So, like I said, I'd just assume they are all dead. It is not impossible something like 1 or 5% survived, but I'm not sure that that helps all that much anyway,
OP
OP
ZephyrStarPlaties
Fish Crazy
It turns out that there was enough bacteria that ammonia and nitrate are both at 0. 
CezzaXV
Fish Gatherer
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It turns out that there was enough bacteria that ammonia and nitrate are both at 0.
Yay!
You did put ammonia in, right? Sorry if it seems stupid, but some people around here...
OP
OP
ZephyrStarPlaties
Fish Crazy
It turns out that there was enough bacteria that ammonia and nitrate are both at 0.
Yay!
You did put ammonia in, right? Sorry if it seems stupid, but some people around here...
Yeah, I put ammonia in.
OP
OP
ZephyrStarPlaties
Fish Crazy
The bottle had a line on the cap to show how much to use for every 10 gallons. Not sure exactly how much it was. I went ahead and used half a dose though, so I'd guess something like 3 milliliters. I'm probably completely wrong though
It turns out that there was enough bacteria that ammonia and nitrate are both at 0.
If cycling were really happening, shouldn't the nitrate be greater than zero? Something is not quite adding up.
The bottle had a line on the cap to show how much to use for every 10 gallons. Not sure exactly how much it was. I went ahead and used half a dose though, so I'd guess something like 3 milliliters. I'm probably completely wrong though
And this is part that is also is not adding up. If anything, you want to put a lot extra ammonia in there to have a large healthy colony capable of processing much more ammonia than it would ever need to.
OP
OP
ZephyrStarPlaties
Fish Crazy
It turns out that there was enough bacteria that ammonia and nitrate are both at 0.
If cycling were really happening, shouldn't the nitrate be greater than zero? Something is not quite adding up.
The bottle had a line on the cap to show how much to use for every 10 gallons. Not sure exactly how much it was. I went ahead and used half a dose though, so I'd guess something like 3 milliliters. I'm probably completely wrong though
And this is part that is also is not adding up. If anything, you want to put a lot extra ammonia in there to have a large healthy colony capable of processing much more ammonia than it would ever need to.
It's seeming odd to me too. But I've been checking the parameters every day, and it's all at zero except for nitrates.
OP
OP
ZephyrStarPlaties
Fish Crazy
Ah, I mixed the names up in my post. Just fixed it.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Maybe it is possible that what I posted was actually correct?
I said some should survive, certainly enough to help with cycling and the best way to know would be to do just what the OP did.
Based on the OP's reported results, I rest my case your honor.
I am also going to say that it is wrong to follow this advice:
Doing this can actually have the exact opposite effect, it will slow down, and even stop a cycle. In some cases, if the dosing is high enough, it will actual kill the bacteria rather than cause them to multiply. I have quoted and linked to several research studies in various posts on this forum which say the exact same thing- only they proved it in a lab experiment.
I said some should survive, certainly enough to help with cycling and the best way to know would be to do just what the OP did.
Based on the OP's reported results, I rest my case your honor.
I am also going to say that it is wrong to follow this advice:
Doing this can actually have the exact opposite effect, it will slow down, and even stop a cycle. In some cases, if the dosing is high enough, it will actual kill the bacteria rather than cause them to multiply. I have quoted and linked to several research studies in various posts on this forum which say the exact same thing- only they proved it in a lab experiment.
Based on the OP's reported results, I rest my case your honor.
I am also going to say that it is wrong to follow this advice:
Doing this can actually have the exact opposite effect, it will slow down, and even stop a cycle. In some cases, if the dosing is high enough, it will actual kill the bacteria rather than cause them to multiply. I have quoted and linked to several research studies in various posts on this forum which say the exact same thing- only they proved it in a lab experiment.
TTA,
the OP's reported advice is anecdote at best. Hardly conclusive in a court of law, and definitely not by standards of science. In most cases, aquatic bacteria are not going to survive being dried out. They just aren't designed to handle that. Who knows what the details of the storage were to allow some to survive?
And, I should have been clearer "a lot" to me is about 2 or 3x more than would be needed by a fully stocked tank. That amount is no where near an amount that would stall a cycle. Most tank's fish will produce somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 to 2 ppm in a day. That's why the 5 ppm number that has been cited time and time again seems to be pretty successful. If you put like 15 ppm in there -- yeah, the ammonia oxidizing bacteria that come in with the water supply don't handle that well. So, you end up having to wait for the high-concentration ammonia oxidizers to show up. So, I agree that there is too much of "a lot" possible. I just meant it to mean "more than a typical tank would need" so that there is no chance of any issues coming up.
So, just to be clear. 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and >0 nitrates?
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