Cycling Tank With Lights Or Not?

[Ch4rlie]

Hi,
 
Have started the process of fishless cycling my 90L (20g) tank

. Not something I've done before as this is my first time doing this.
 
Have noticed that there is quite a bit of algae starting to grow on my live plants. Some green algae on leaves and also some white very thin stringy type algae, sorry do not know what types of algae they are

 
Am only a week into the fishless cycling process and have had 2x t8 15w lights on for 8 hours a day, every day. Also there is a bit of indirect sunlight going in tank as well.
 
My question is, do you need the lights on for fishless cycling as I think the lights may be encouraging algae growth?
 
I've tried to find out through this forum but cant seem to find anything with lighting during cycling process!

 
Any help or tips will be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks

 

[Lillefishy]

Light + ammonia = algae so leave the lights off

 

[Ch4rlie]

Lillefishy - Thanks, that basically confirms what I thought what was happening. Will now leave the lightts off until fishless cycle is finished 

 

[daizeUK]

By the way in case you weren't already aware, three of your plants are non-aquatic (the ones with red and white edges).

 

[Ch4rlie]

daizeUK - Really?

 I bought all these plant from the same source - Pets at Home 

 
Can you tell me which plants are you referring to? I can only see one plant that has any red on it, one at front left corner.
Will probably feel like such a kluntz when you point them out for me!

 
Even if they are non-aquatic plants, what will happen? Will they die off or something?
 
Thanks 

 

[Lillefishy]

The green & white ones are draecaena & the green one with red edges is a cordyline, they're houseplants, they'll eventually rot.
A lot of Lfs sell them as aquaticI wish they wouldn't

 

[Ch4rlie]

Now, that actually annoys me that LFS (Pets at Home) sold me these knowing full well am doing a tropical fish tank!

 
Thank so much for pointing that out.
 
Am in a bit of a dilemma as the cordyline is a nice looking plant and was pleased as punch when i put it in the tank! Will I leave it or take it out now and pot it as a houseplant.....and replace the blank space with new plants

 some moss balls or something like that maybe. I think I will do just that tomorrow.
 
Oh, well, best thing I can do is learn from this and look for proper aquatic plants from now on.
 
Thanks for pointing that out, better to know now rather than seeing them when they die in a short while and scratching my head as to why this happened!

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Algae is a common occurrence while cycling. Whether you have lights on or not, most people get algae, having lights on just makes a lot more algae. 
The algae occurs because of all the excess ammonia.
I recommend that you do not have your lights on until you are done cycling.
 
Lilliefish is correct about the plants. 
If you leave them in then they will die and pollute your tank. It is best to remove them.
What you do with it is completely up to you, as long as you remove it
Sadly, LFS's like Pet At Home etc. care about profit. They aren't very good people to go to to get advice from and sadly will often sell things that are unsuitable for your tank. Be careful next time you buy from them.
 
Some Marimo Moss Balls or some more Valis would look nice

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I totally disagree with what has been posted above regarding cycling with plants and algae. I have cycled dozens of tanks fishlessly with different levels of plants from light to heavy and almost never had an algae problem. The lights were on.
 
It helps if you plant ahead of starting the cycle in this respect. When rooted plants are initially put in, they undergo transplant shock. They should be allowed to settle in before one starts adding ammonia. They will take up more ammonia this way. All stems and plants attached to wood and rock can settle in faster- almost immediately. So it is important that some portion of ones planting include these. They can be swapped out later for other things if one doesn't want them long term.
 
You need to get the non-aquatics out and replaced with proper ones for your tank. Having plants settled in when you begin cycling will shorten the cycling time. The more plants, the faster it tends to go- to a point. Heavily planted tanks can skip cycling and just start with some fish and then add more every few weeks until fully stocked.
 
My question is, how much ammonia were you dosing and how often?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Blondielovesfish - Seems that my lfs store is more about the profit as you say rather than decent customer care. Now that I've learned about the plants, I can see also that they vastly overstock their little tanks with loads of small young fish which make them more attractive. Poor little fish going through this!
 
Would have thought good care from lfs would make customers have more faith in them and become more regular customers therefore more profit! Go figure!!

 
Am gonna take these 3 non-aquatic plants out today and replace them with probably more corkscrew vallis and some moss balls. Will post pics when have done this

 
TwoTankAmin -  That is most interesting. I will try your theory next time I cycle another tank (am already planning on having another tank!! lol) and see if this is the case. Will be interesting results if this is actually the case.
 
I did not add any ammonia until yesterday as I could not get hold of any!! So there was no ammonia added for 6 days therefore yesterday was the first time I added any.
 
My water test result before I added ammonia yesterday was: pH 7.6, Ammonia 0.50ppm, Nitrite 0.25ppm, Nitrate 0.40ppm which is the same results as my tap water so not much had changed for 6 days.
 
Hope to see some changes today since added ammonia.
 
I added 3ppm worth of ammonia into the tank. I calculated that at 90l tank minus 10% for gravel/decor so that worked out to 2.5ml. Ammonia is household cleaner with 9.5% Ammonia Hydroxide. Hope I did all that correctly

 

[daizeUK]

LFS shops tend to have large filtration systems that can cope with overstocked tanks, it's not very pleasant for the fish to be overcrowded but it is only intended to be for a short temporary stay.  The problem is when buyers see these tanks stocked full of fish and then think they should stock their tank the same way!
 
Your ammonia should be fine as long as it does not froth when shaken.
 
Since your tap water contains 0.5ppm ammonia I recommend you get hold of some Seachem Prime water conditioner ready for after your cycle has finished.  This will help to detoxify the ammonia that will be added whenever you do a regular water change.

 

[Ch4rlie]

I completely agree with that assessment about lfs overstocking but meant as short term. But, still, a few less fish in each tank would be a bit better and provided people do their homework, should know how many fish roughly they can have in their respective tanks.
 
I'm now learning fast not to rely on lfs advice, will do my researches and ask on this forum first before buying anything live. 

 
Thanks for these tips.
 
My ammonia bottle does have a few bubbles on top when i shake the bottle, doe not froth completely but quite a bit of bubbles/froth on top. I got this idea of this bottle from this forum actually when i was looking to see where I could buy Ammonia from, most said try Homebase own brand household cleaner and its a white bottle wth blue top as mentioned by quite a few people so I thought I was buying the right stuff. Hmm...... 

 
And thanks for that Seachem Prime water tip, I'll buy a bottle of that when I get new plants to replace the non-aquatic plants.

 

[fm1978]

Hi Charlie, I'm pretty new myself and understand your concerns. Stick with this forum if you have any questions and I assure you, you will be given the sound advice.

As far as your light question is concerned; I'm with 2tank on this 1... I'm still cycling, with fish, (I know it's not ideal), and I have the lights on a lot! Sometimes as much as 10 - 12 hours a day. I think that's too much, but, it's only equivalent to 0.25 watts per litre and it's for the benefit of the live plants. The thing is though, I still haven't had any algae! I'm not sure why, but, and I'm only guessing, I feel that the plants growth has somehow prevented the growth of algae.

In this case, I'm an advocate of encouraging the growth of your live plants and forgetting, for the time being, an algae problem.

FYI, the live plants that have worked very well for me so far are Riccia, Nymphoides and Hemianthes. That's with no CO2, no ferts, no special substrate.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Fm1978 - sounds like good advice from you. I'll calculate what my wattage is regarding per litre, so can take it from there. I actually now am beginning to believe algae may be more to do with the non aquatic plants perhaps as most of the algae is growing on these particular plants. Gonna take them out today anyway.

And as you say, encouraging my plant growth may help control the algae growth, am hoping this will be the case.

Will have a look for the plants you named and see what my lfs supplies have.

Thanks a lot for that.

 

[Arcticfox1977]

I'm doing the fish in cycling. I have 4 real plants and need the lights on. My ammonia levels do not go above 0.25ppm, as I do WC. I do get algae but I clean this once a week which isn't to bad. I did go on holiday for 5 days and the lights weren't on. Came back and there was no algae, but my plants were starting to fade and go brown. So guess, if you want healthy looking plants keep lights on and do a cleaning routine once a week.