Bowfront 180 Litres

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I would still like to know though what to do with my T5s: should I take 2 10000 o 2 6500 K? In the back I have 2 4100K...

Well 30W + 28W = 58W over a 50 USG. That is low light whether it is T5HO or not. however if it were my tank and T5 or T8 standard (NO) was easily available I would get rid of the lot and get 2 x full length (not T5HO)

That would probably be 4ft? So 2 x 32W T8 or 2 x 28W T5 (Normal Output)

That would seem like more light but it will take away the difference in each area of the tank, spread things a little more and reduce the intensity overall IMO.

Andy prefers a lower K rating over his tank. I think plants look better with a higher K rating. Nothing higher than a 9000k though.

Its not that. 8/9/10000K is a white light with a tinge of blue. Not hugely different from each other to our eye. Many scapers like the 10000K. The ADA lamp is 8000K. Not my cup of tea. I like clean crisp white with no tinge so I stick to 5500K. 6000-7500K is white with a green tinge and low K is the pink 'supposed' best for plants tubes in the 3500K - 4500K range. I want pure natural colour. No 'enhancing' fish or plants colours. I want the clea, crisp, actual. Reality rather than 'enhanced' :)

Now the really low K's 2000-3000K are the yellow 'beauty' lights which the UK seems to think are great as room lighting. Very ugly over a tank (and in the room) IMO.

Andy will probably explain PAR better than me, i'm gonna reference this description actually lol, its about the light spectrum, and PAR stands for Photosynthetically Active Radiation.

In the same way fat provides the most efficient calories for humans................

Lol where is the PAR info Ian. That is the marketing blurb that comes on most aquarium lamps but not on shop fittings. Reason is that the 'spectrum is not going to influence the shop fitting buyer :) However the 'myths' in our hobby will influence the aquarium buyer.

Notice they show you just the photosynthesis ranges in nM!!!! Why not show us the detail outside of the range too if we are talking spectrums. How much UV etc.

Basically those graphs are made to say 'Our tubes are perfect for X' PAR test other non aquarium tubes against that tube until you reach an equal reading and then test the 2 over plants. You won't see any noticeable difference in growth.

Yes some brands have higher PAR than others. That is a quality issue. However those Spectrum Graphs are just showing you what colouration the tube gives out with no detail of quantity of light.

PAR is a measure of how much light there is within the photosynthetic range. You could have 2 lights with that identical 'spectrum analysis'. They both say gives out X amount % of red and X amount % of blue however % of what total. 1 tube may be 50 PAR and the other 100PAR. That renders the percentages worthless. they are both the same on the graph but one is 2x better!!!

PAR would be a simple number however unlike Lumens where the customer wants to know a number that is being emitted FROM the light. We want a PAR measurement received at X point. Therefore if the manufacturer/retailer puts a PAR figure on their tube saying emits 1000PAR that is again worthless to us. Great 1000PAR at the light. How much at the water surface? How much at the substrate. Are both tubes that emit 1000PAR delivering the same to the substrate?

Thats where it all gets a little complicated and everyone would need their own £250 PAR meter :)

At the end of the day a PAR reading for emission can suggest a light is giving out more light than another however that high emission may not be as penetrative and not give as high PAR at the substrate as the lower emitting light etc. Its all a number game here. lol. Very technical and something I'm pretty interested in, smoething I'd like to really get my teeth into but not something that I can justify £250 on. lol. I would buy a new tank instead if I had £250 spare

The 2 T8 I have are Dennerle 4000 K with UV-Block (against algae). The T5s are bought locally and don't have the info required. I understand though that you need lamps in the range of 4000 to 10000 to have a good PAR, especially the 4000, 6500 and 9000-1000.

In that sense I would be doing ok...

Lol Our good friends at Dennerle and their 'up to date' beliefs. lol. Sidetracking I know but I must rant.

Dennerle seem to have some very strange beliefs based on old myths that nearly everyone these days knows are myths yet they still push them and somehow are still one of THE big name brands in this hobby.

I get on to this because of the statement of with UV-Block (against algae) in your post above.

Firstly algae is a plant. what is good for plants is also good for algae. UV is bad for humans, it is bad for plants and yes it is bad for all life in general including algae. This is why if you use a UV steriliser (which basically a UV lamp over a tube of water) it.........kills algae spores. Therefore if you block UV then thats great but why claim it has anything to do with algae? It will stop the plants and fish being burnt by the UV but the same will be true of the algae. A pointless claim and not even a reasonable one!!!

They also suggest that you should turn your lights out for 2 hours to emulate tropical thunderstorms and this will help avoid algae. This is even more laughable.lol. The 'siesta is not meant to emulate thunderstorms nor does it help avoid algae. The only reason the siesta can help 'and there are far more that will say it does nothing at all) is if DIY CO2 levels are weak and you turn the lights off it gives the CO2 a chance to build again for a second burst.

The truth however is CO2 is critical in the first few hours and lesser later in the photoperiod. Plants will close up when they have had enough light. Why try and make them do 2 rounds in a day when they are supposed to do one. lol. I'll stop ranting about Dennerle there. Their products aren't too bad but their marketing department are on the 'happy pills' and working double overtime :)

On the subject of your tubes. The Dennerle's are 4000K which is 'supposed' to be the best range out there although one of the ugliest appearances aesthetically. Dark purple towards yellow/Orange but good.

Some will say the 6500K (green) is useless as plants can't use yellow/green light but many (including myself) have used purely 6500K with the same results as the 'supposed' ideal range pink lights.

Onto PAR and ranges. This is pretty difficult to sort the truth from the myth really. It is likely that if you used a purely marine light setup (actinic) that you would still have fine plant growth but the effect would be of using less light in that there would be less light given off by these tubes in the usable PAR range. However they will not cause algae unless the plants are suffering just as the case is with 'ideal' ranges. Light is light and plants are adept at adapting theirselves to do what they can with what they have. A little like modern humans should be and then the world would be a happier place. lol

Within the 4000 - 10000 range the PAR will still not be consistent. Some tubes are better than others even if they are the same tube from the same manufacturer. Some manufacturers are incredibly different where I saw a test recently where 2 brand new tubes, same wattage, same K rating and same CRI gave 30% difference in PAR and that is a lot considering the K rating is suppose to be a 'defining' statement of quality as is the CRI. These were both high end, top brand tubes but different brands.

That shows you how much those graphs mean!!!!

Just in case you really want to see how difficult this subject is to sort then read the following link. There are 2 people here that are debating, one called Defdac from the perspective of the Importance of K ratings and one called ceg4048 from the perspective of the NON importance of the K rating.

Thes are both highly respected people on the more technical issues of the hobby yet 2 different opinions on the subject. Ceg4048 comes from the perspective that I see from what I have used and tried and agree with.

It is 5 pages long but well worth the read and you have to wait for the very end for the best remark from our man in the know which is:

If you want real pretty reds, just buy Tom Barr's "Red Plant Paint" and get a brush.

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/4768-K-rating-on-bulbs-and-Plants.

So the summary:

4,5,6,7,8,9,10K is fine Higher still probably fine. But try to get full length and try to get equal spread.

You also have higher turnover than me and I have way more light :)

AC
 
Thanks very much for the extensive and illuminating reply... :hyper:

My lamps are overlapping in the middle for about 5 cm, so that doesn't explain the algae on the Alternanthera (which is on the right). If I would change to full-sized tubes should I get T5 or T8? I can get here 4100, 6500 and 10000 K. NOthing else. If I understand well from your explanation, I could use either, right?
 
Get whichever size you can get the reflectors for.

As for colour thats your preference. I would personally use 1 4100 and 1 6500. that would balance the pink with the green and hopefully finish somewhere in the middle.

2 x 6500K would be too greeny white IMO.

AC
 
Ok, I just came back from China after 3 weeks and the situation in my tank is as follows. All the fish survived. Hurrah! The new automatic feeder did a great job, although my fish are hungry (I only feed once a day while away in smaller portions).

My cabomba grew large and thin and urgently needs trimming. Whatever was left of my H. polisperma was eaten by some fish (I don't know which one) or maybe the manzana snail? So I now have a complete bare left corner. The algae did not diminish on the A. reineckii and some is visible on the anubia and the cryptocoryne. I had lowered the light during my absence (only 2x 15 W) so should I conclude from this that there is a lack of nutrients or an excess? If I would know this, then I could take action. For the moment, I have topped up the water and added nutrients and liquid carbon. Tomorrow I will do a water change (have to order water first; I am using bottled water as the quality of the tap water is so bad....)

Luckily I bought some plants in Mexico city. I have hydrocotyle (last time I will give this a try) with good roots, I have some H. polisperma rosanervig and got myself a new reddish plant. Cannot provide you yet with an english or scientific name, but will try later to find it based on the spanish name they gave me.

Once the work has been done I will post pics.
 
So, I did a clean up of the tank. Installed a new powerfilter (with both mechanical and biological filtration) with which I am very happy. You can see it on the right hand side in the picture.

As you can see on the left hand side I planted the H. polisperma as well as the new red plant. Anybody knows a name for this plant? I found out that my angles are the culprits for eating the polisperma. I am giving them now extra portions of spirulina and hope this will help reduce their nibbling...

As you can see I am trying to cover the larg piece of of wood with the windelov. This piece of wood has many crevices and is great for just sticking in these pieces. I hope that it will give some more height to the scape. Overall I consider it to be too flat at the moment. Hopefully the polisperma and the cabomba will take off and provide a real lively wall in the background.

I wonder what is happening to my ozelot. I have had it for 6 months now and it is doing nothing. It is not dying, but not growing either. Should I put in a root tab to provide it with some extra nutrients?

On the fish front: I have moved my 2 agasizzis to the 20 litre. I know it is smallish for them but in this tank they did not thrive. As all my congos turned out to be females, I bought 4 more and have now 10. The sex of these 4 cannot yet be determined although I can see one developing as a male already. Then I have currently 5 B. rostrata in quarantaine, which should be able to go in next week together with some more cherries which should bring their number to 12. I know I am more than stocked then and do not plan to add anything else to this tank.

Otos are suppposed to stay together as a group. Well, I have 4, of which one is considerably larger than the other 3, but even these 3 don't stay together! All of them are darting around separately in the tank. The big one has grown huge though; no wonder, with all these algae to eat... :lol:

I am personally not happy with the way the tank looks, but the fish are doing great; my cherries are the darkest red you can imagine, and even though they are females, the congos are a very nice irridiscent green. Also my 3 rams sport all their colours.

A quick tank shot (I will put up some more once I have cleaned the algae off the glass):

DSC06007.jpg
 
So here they are new pics :hyper: I have an acrylic tank and am afraid I will scratch it, so the algae are not completely removed from the front glass. I am not sure whether I can use one of these green pads, or whether it will scratch? So I only use a cloth to wipe it off.

First a full tank shot: It looks too much 2D for my liking at the moment. It is time the background plants start growing taller and can be seen.

DSC06020.jpg


I have installed a powerhead, which gives me more circulation. As you may remember the right hand side suffers from BBA. This is where the inlet and outlet are. I hope this powerhead will diminish the problem, also adding liquid carbon (5 ml Azoo) daily. Right hand side:

DSC06021.jpg


A gap was created on the left hand side since my angels (or the congos?) ate my Hygrophila. I have planted this plant again and am now feeding more spirulina to discourage the snacking on my plants. I have also planted a reddish plant from which I don't know the name... I don't think it will last long though, as it is already falling apart... You can also see my 'smokey' angel in this picture.

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I have started to attach my windelov to the wood base on the left. This wood has many crevices and holes and is frequented by many fish, especially the loaches. I hope that the windelov will also give some more 3D to this scape.

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From the plants I brought from Switzerland basically only my java fern is still alive (although I do see a new green leaf coming out of the bolbitis) but it has black patches. Does anybody know what this is? Can I do something about it? Underneath is the anubia with algae, as you can see. The shading effect that I hoped to achieve with the fern is not working yet...

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The only plant I am really happy with is the tiger lotus, but unfortunately something has been nibbling on it! :angry: Does anybody know what the holes in the leaves could have caused? Snails? I do have some despite the loaches...

DSC06022.jpg


Then last, the A. reineckki with the BBA. As you can see, the new shoots don't have BBA but they are stunted. Is this a lack of some kind of nutrient or light (remember I lowered to 30 W during my absence) or is it a direct result from the diminished photosynthesis capacity due to BBA?

DSC06031.jpg


This is all for now. I am looking forward to comments and suggestions!
 
it actually looks better. Where is the powerhead? it it the internal filter? If so i would point that directly across the tank. It still looks a bit under naurished looking at the plants. I think a bit of N and P wouldn't go a miss.
 
it actually looks better. Where is the powerhead? it it the internal filter? If so i would point that directly across the tank. It still looks a bit under naurished looking at the plants. I think a bit of N and P wouldn't go a miss.

Yes, it is the internal filter. I thought it was a lot of current when I directed it across the tank...
I dose 2x N and P according to the Seachem guidelines, which is 5 and 2.5 ml. Should I up that?
 
I would up the N and P, it won't hurt anything. Get the current across the tank aswell! :good:
 
Unfortunately, I did not get a reply on whether I should up the dosis or the number of times I dose ferts...
I doubled the dosis of liquid carbon today (10 ml) after I read Mikey's journal about how he had gotten rid of the BBA.

On the positive front: I thought I had lost my bolbitis heudelotti (one of the plants I brought from Switzerland) but the 2 rhizomes are showing new growth! :hyper: There are about 5 sprouts coming up of which one is already showing the ramnifications of the leaf. I wonder whether the increased flow has something to do with it as well, as I read that bolbitis likes current?

Some (not too focused pics):

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Bolbitis is a pretty tough plant. Is it in a place with good flow? I have found you can get away with a lot with regard to Bolbitis if you just stick in a place in the tank where the current is strong.

Sorry I didn't see the dosing question. That is quite a collection of BBA there. :crazy: The hydrocotyle looks great though. Everybody says it's an algae magnet. I never found that to be the case.

llj
 
Thanks for the comments llj!

I have tried hydrocotyle several times and it always disintegrated after a few days. I think it was also due to the fact that it did not have many roots. I have taken special care of it this time and it is holding on quite well for the moment. In my nano, it is even growing!

Regarding the bolbitis: yes, it is exactly in the flow of the powerhead that I put in. I hope that it doesn't grow too slow and that soon it will sport some leaves again.

What about the java fern? It is not doing well. My light is not high, so normally this shouldn't be an issue. It is not growing though and I feel it is only getting worse. Should I give it a trim to promote new growth?
 
I am a bit frustrated with the tank at the moment. I have been diligently dosing 10 ml of carbon every day, 2x week trace and nutrients as well as weekly waterchanges, but I hardly see any growth.

The only plants that seem to be growing are the petchiis. My ozelot has been in there for months and is shooting up new leaves, but is not growing in height! Also my Hygrophila doesn't seem to grow much either.

The BBA has gotten less, where I brushed it off it didn't come back, but I basically lost my A. reineckii. Only some stems are left and they still have BBA. I am glad I bought the C. undulata which is taking its place in the back.

I have also put in myriophyllum hippuroides recently, as well as Limnophyla sessiflora. These are still small so difficult to see behind the wood.

Anyway some pics:

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the new crypts:

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Anybody knows what these white spots are? They appeared after a water change and dosing. Is it some chemical reacion?:

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