Algea Issue

[dave_gray2077]

Hi

I am now currently suffering my second BGA outbreak since I set up my tank.

I am a wear that low nitrate levels can cause this. What is an acceptable level of nitrate to stop this.

Here is my tank set up

33 US gallon
2.1WPG
ammonia <0.25ppm
NitrIte 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
Temp 25oC
KH 14
GH 16
CO2 is about 20ppm Cannot go any higher as it affects my shrimp.

Dosing IE. 20ml of KNO3, 12mm of KH2PO4, 5mm K2SO4 ever second day. Flourish trace mix (cant think of the trade name) is user ever 2 days as well. Im alternating with the micro nutrients.

Dosing flourish excel ever day with one cap full.

According to the guides above im doing everything fine.

How ever should I up the does of KNO3 to increase NO3. as after a water change of 50% every Friday its undetectable again by the test kit for about 5 days. API master test kit is being used.

Current stock is 9 Cardinal tetra. 4 ottos. 3 amano shrimp. 6 red fin tetra.

I don’t mind doing this black out thing but I want to get to the bottom if this issue. The blanket has just gone on the tank today to remove the second outbreak.

Lase time i did this the bactrial took 3 weeks to reapper.

 

[JamesC]

If you've made up your solutions as in the pinned EI thread then it looks like you are doing things right. I find it strange how your NO3 levels are so low as normally with EI the levels will be a lot higher - approx 20-30ppm. Remember NO3 test kits are notoriuosly inaccurate so your 5ppm may be a mile out.

At your lighting level I'd be surprised if all the NO3 is getting used up. Are you sure you've made the solutions up correctly using KNO3? I've know people to get the powders mixed up before - very easy to do as they all look pretty much the same.

BGA is linked to low nitrate, normally 5ppm or less. Keeping it above 10ppm should keep the BGA away. How is your water circulation? Your NH3 should be zero. Have found sometimes new tank setups get BGA - how long has your's been going?

James

 

[dave_gray2077]

The tank has been going for 3 months now.

Added the 6 red fins 2 weeks ago. My NH3 test is never bight yellow but it also does not match the first stripe on the test kit. The tank never really cycled either however I believe this is due to all the plants I have. The fish were slowly added at a rate of 3 a week with the exception of the 6 red fins that went in at once. I only got a small peek in NitrIte after adding the initial 3 ottos. They were the first 3 fish into the tank.

I think the circulation is ok. I have a juwel tank with the standard power head for the 125l tank. This seems to put out a good flow down the back of the tank.

Do you think it is worth adding a little extra KNO3?

From the off the tank was very heavily planted.

Here is the plant list i have. If this will help.

Growth with in the tank is fast.
I am cutting back Limnophila sessiliflora every weeks about 5 inches.
Alternanthera reineckii ''roseafolia'' need cutting ever 2 weeks as well.
Hemianthus callitrichoides ''Cuba'' gets a little trim now and again when it starts to tyr and grow up the stem plants and this covers. There is only about 10% of the substarate not covered.

 

[JamesC]

Ah, OK now I have more info I can help a bit more. I notice you have Hemianthus callitrichoides ''Cuba''. When I put this in my tank I noticed I was getting low on NO3 as other plants were starting to get stunted growth - I never use NO3 and PO4 test kits now as they are too unreliable. You may therefore be bottoming out on NO3 so adding more will probably be a good idea. Try adding 30mls rather than 20mls and see how that goes. Also may need to watch PO4. Just look out for round green spots on the glass or plant leaves. If you see them you'll also need to up your PO4 a bit.

Be watchful of your CO2 though as 20ppm is a bit low. How are you measuring? I'm surprised you say shrimp are affected. I find that shrimp are more tolerant of higher CO2 levels than fish and should easily be able to cope with 30ppm.

Everything else seems fine.

James

 

[dave_gray2077]

Im using a drop checker and referring the colour to a chart I got with the CO2 system.
The chart lists the GH and Ph as well.

Its strange behaviour I see in my shrimps when the CO2 reaches 30ppm according to the chart.

The test solution I have is blue. Turns green when its about 30ppm and goes yellow if CO2 gets to high. I think the indicator is called bromo Blue.

Any way the solution is a mix between blue and green. Tested my PH an its 7.4. Ph is 8.0 from the tap.

I have turned the CO2 up a little bit sometime but as soon as the indicator goes bright green my shrimps start displaying strange behaviour. The shrimp’s look “drunkâ€￾ they swim around the tank a bit then lay upside down on the bottom of the tank. When they are upside down on the bottom of the tank and their Pleopods fan like mad. As soon as I reduce the CO2 a bit this behaviour stops.

Ill up the NO3 in 3 days time when the covers come off. Thanks for the help.

Thinking about it the Cuba its self has yellowed a bit to. Any way ill follow your advice in 3 days see what happens once the Cynobacteria is dead.

 

[JamesC]

How have you made the solution for your drop checker - using tank water or with a KH4 reference solution? I find the same thing happens to my fish that happens to your shrimp when CO2 levels get too high in that they appear drunk. Never had gasping at the surface that people says happens.

James

 

[dave_gray2077]

I am using tank water. The instructions i got with the CO2 kit says it ok to use it.

Should i order some 4k ref solution?

 

[JamesC]

Yes. You need to have the solution at 4KH otherwise the colours will be wrong which seems to be happening to you. You could always make your own solution as I did but you need accurate scales - http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169942

James

 

[nry]

My permanent test says to use tank water, but the colour to aim for is dependent upon the kH of the tank water. For a kH of 4 you aim for green, higher kH levels need to aim for a darker green: obviously this is my kit and instructions are only relevant to my kit but aiming for yellow if you are using tank water is not always correct: for my kH yellow indicates too much CO2.

To be curious, I see no reason why a simpler method is not just to use pH testkit liquid: if you know the usual pH of your water, then subtract one from this and there is the colour to aim for on the drop checker? Or am I misunderstanding things?

 

[JamesC]

I have seen those and I've even got a JBL one that came with my CO2 kit. I found it never really worked very well compared to using the 4KH solution. Only costs a small amount of money and will last ages.

Didn't really understand how your calculation works but you have to remember the pH scale is logarithmic and not linear so simple subtractions don't work.

James

 

[nry]

I have seen those and I've even got a JBL one that came with my CO2 kit. I found it never really worked very well compared to using the 4KH solution. Only costs a small amount of money and will last ages.

Didn't really understand how your calculation works but you have to remember the pH scale is logarithmic and not linear so simple subtractions don't work.

James

Use tank water and pH indicator inthe drop checker. You're aiming for a colour which indicates a pH of 1 less than tank water that has stood for 24-hours to indicate the '1' pH drop which 'sometimes' suggests a 30ppm CO2 level...

But yes, I am thinking I need to invest in the 4dkh liquid and relevant test liquid, I would prefer to know exactly what levels I have!

 

[lljdma06]

I won't address the BGA issue as JamesC is doing a great job. I would have said add more nitrate too, but I don't keep a high tech anymore, so for me adding nitrate means buying an extra fish or two.

What tapwater conditioner are you using? And what ammonia test kit are you using? You seem to be on the ball chemistry-wise, so you may already be aware that certain ammonia test kits will register positive for ammonia depending on what water conditioner you use. For example if the kit uses Nessler reagents, then any water conditioner that converts ammonia to a harmless ammonia compound, will render the water positive for ammonia. Drove me nuts when this happened to me.

If plants are decaying, however, you will also register ammonia.

llj