A Month Into My 1st Fishless Cycle...

[MattM1124]

there's more to pH than that, i don't even understand it all fully, however that's a reasonable start to fully understanding it.

KH kits can be a little hard to get hold of so be prepared to pop into a couple of fish shops or maybe wait for someone to order one in for you. As ever with test kits make sure it's liquid based.

yes, test the tap water and the tank water

Sounds good thanks!! 1 last question...I did something stupid....before I posted here, I added some ph buffer to raise it up. Should I do a water change right now or can I wait until tomorrow? See I have to go to my aunts house to get tap water because at my house we have well water. The well water is good to drink but I don't like it in the tank because it starts out really cloudy. I usually fill up a couple 5 gallon gas cans when I go lol.

Also, should I do a bigger water change now that I added that stuff in earlier?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

no it's fine, just leave it. the swinging pH is a problem for fish, you have no fish ergo it's OK. but it's not a good habit to get into using it you should look at identifying the cause and an appropriate solution from that point.

 

[MattM1124]

no it's fine, just leave it. the swinging pH is a problem for fish, you have no fish ergo it's OK. but it's not a good habit to get into using it you should look at identifying the cause and an appropriate solution from that point.

I agree but up until this post I had no idea using that stuff wasn't a good idea. I know now and for future use lol. Thanks for all the help!! When I get the KH test kit I'll be sure to post the results!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

please do, and waterdrop is much better with pH and KH than me so no doubt he'll hop on here at some point and give some more insight and help when you get those test results.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, hi MW, hope you're feeling well today! We may have jumped on the pH/KH thing too soon. I think Matt's fishless cycle, despite displaying a current pH of 6.4, has managed to finish up and its possible the final week of verification will run along just fine at 6.4 or even better with a water change. Then, after the fishless cycle, it will be so very much better to simply run the tank at whatever pH the water source is if possible.

I still agree that if Matt can manage to get a KH kit, that is always a great addition to an aquarist's toolkit. In fact, I've always been disappointed that it is not included in the basic kits like the API one. By the way, Matt, I use the Tetratest KH kit and its been very good. API also makes one that comes as a combined KH/GH kit, which is fine also. KH is the most important one to have though, between the two.

Once all that ammonia is out of there and the process of cycling is not so intense (even though fishless cycling is over and you have your first set of fish, the bacteria will keep on growing, so that's why I say "cycling is less intense"), it could be that there will be less to drive the pH downward and we will find that the pH just wants to be at some range that we'll see then with our pH tests. Its so desirable not to have to artificially alter the pH away from what the source water is that people will often make it a factor in the fish stock planning to try to plan fish that work well within the pH range of their source water.

By performing both pH -and- KH tests on your source water from your Aunt's house, we'll have a very good idea of what your situation will be like in the tank after fishless cycling.

Oh, and by the way, the -only- chemical that should be going into your water should be the conditioner that gets out the chlorine/chloramines when its new tap water. All other chemicals are suspect and, especially if the LFS tells you to use them or you just "think" they make sense, you should first ask here and learn about them and get yourself up to where you can make an "informed" decision about them. There will be "legit" other things, like liquid fertilizers for the plants for instance, but in general your alarm bells need to go off about anything going into your precious water!

~~waterdrop~~
ps. In my day you had to have your favorite Isleys flavor to be a Pittsburgher!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

morning WD, still feeling a bit poorly but enjoying some time off work at least, being very productive around the house!

yes you're quite right as I said hopefully it's just a result of the cycle and water changes will be enough, but usefl to know the KH anyway and then we can ascertain if it's something that's worth tinkering with. I do think it's worth finding out before adding fish if poss because it's much safer to tinker with pH without fish than wirh fish in.

 

[MattM1124]

Ok, I went to 2 LFS and none of them had the liquid KH tests. I'm gonna have to get it off their web site. I did however already have some test strips that test KH and GH. I know these are inaccurate but until I get the liquid one I thought I'd post the results from the test strips:

From the tap:
KH - between 40-80
GH 180

In the tank:
KH - 40
GH - 180

Now I'm not a fish expert but it would seem like having the kh from the tap between 40-80 probably means my ph will always be low. Am I right? I'll probably have to do a lot of water changes to keep it up to around 7.6 or so.

I also looked at some fish at the store and here's what I'm considering:

Tropical/non aggressive:
Long finned red minor tetras, black phantom tetras, red sword tails, long finned zebra danio.

Tropical/Aggressive:
Tiger barb, rainbow shark, black ghost knife.

Last time I had fish I stayed away from the aggressive fish because I didn't want to risk having them nip at each other. Thoughts on that and the fish I like. Also, what are some heartier fish in both categories? Lastly, the fish after what they were, had either md or lg by their names. What does that stand for?

Oh and just wanted to thank both WD and MW again for the help! Without you both, I would be lost!!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

remind me of the tank size, black ghost knifes can get to 24" and will eat any small fish. rainbow sharks get around 6-8" and are pretty agressive/territorial so you have to be careful with tankmates. tiger barbs........ i just don't get them...... but they are a popular fish, need a group of at least 10 to stop them attacking other fish, in a big group they'll be fiesty but just between themselves.

the lg and md are not a common fishkeeping anacronym or anything like that, i'd suggest they probably mean 'medium' or 'large' but that's pure guesswork!

 

[MattM1124]

remind me of the tank size, black ghost knifes can get to 24" and will eat any small fish. rainbow sharks get around 6-8" and are pretty agressive/territorial so you have to be careful with tankmates. tiger barbs........ i just don't get them...... but they are a popular fish, need a group of at least 10 to stop them attacking other fish, in a big group they'll be fiesty but just between themselves.

the lg and md are not a common fishkeeping anacronym or anything like that, i'd suggest they probably mean 'medium' or 'large' but that's pure guesswork!

I'm pretty sure my tank is 20 gallons. It's 30x12x12 (LxHxW). I'm probably better off then sticking to the smaller tropical fish like the tetras, sword tails, platys, etc... What are some hearty fish in that category?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah if you're in the region of 20 gals then youve not enough room for the tiger barbs, rainbow shark or the BGK I'm afraid.

Honestly you can pretty much take your pick of a look of tetras, rasboras, danios and livebearers for hardy fish. What I usually recommend with fish selection is to visit your lfs and write down the names of everything that you like, and we'll let you know if there's anything unsuitasble or sensitive.

 

[waterdrop]

Yup,agree with MW completely up there...

Danios, rasboras, many of the tetras will all be good hardy starters after the big water change. If you like those orange swordfish, then consider getting a couple males only (the ones with the swords) so that you won't have to deal with finding homes for babies (which is next to impossible.) Take your time, keep poking around and reporting things you see at the stores and eventually you will discuss and work out some fish that will give your tank some of the personality you want.

One of the unexpected things about the hobby sometimes is that there is not always a "straight line" between fish that look striking in the store and fish that turn out to be beautiful in your mind in your own tank at home. A good aquarium becomes a quiet world where you see new aspects of beauty that you may not have considered before. The same goes for the personality and habits of fish. You can probably ask any long-term fish-keeper and they will tell you that their opinions of individual species changed quite a bit over the years from having had them.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[MattM1124]

Yup,agree with MW completely up there...

Danios, rasboras, many of the tetras will all be good hardy starters after the big water change. If you like those orange swordfish, then consider getting a couple males only (the ones with the swords) so that you won't have to deal with finding homes for babies (which is next to impossible.) Take your time, keep poking around and reporting things you see at the stores and eventually you will discuss and work out some fish that will give your tank some of the personality you want.

One of the unexpected things about the hobby sometimes is that there is not always a "straight line" between fish that look striking in the store and fish that turn out to be beautiful in your mind in your own tank at home. A good aquarium becomes a quiet world where you see new aspects of beauty that you may not have considered before. The same goes for the personality and habits of fish. You can probably ask any long-term fish-keeper and they will tell you that their opinions of individual species changed quite a bit over the years from having had them.

~~waterdrop~~

I'll definitely keep looking around. Stupid question, but different fish species can't mate right? Like platys can't mate with tetras can they? I'm pretty sure they can't but figured I'd ask. Last time I had fish I made sure to get 2 of each kind I wanted and made sure they were the same sex within that species.

Is it ideal to have a tank full of the same sex so they can't mate or should there be some females and males?

Also I know I used the test strips until my liquid tests comes but what does this say about my ph in the future:

From the tap:
KH - between 40-80
GH 180

In the tank:
KH - 40
GH - 180

 

[Miss Wiggle]

cross species mating is a big topic, the example given is a definate no, but some of the livebearers can cross mate, i believe guppies and mollies will and platys and swordies will (not 100% sure but i think they can) likewise with some of the cichlids. I'm not too up on it but I think it comes down to genus, if the two species are in the same family then it's possible but if they're totally seperate like tetras and platys then they can't as the anatomy is too different.

Just like a lion and a tiger can cross but a lion and a giraffe can't.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, agree with MW. So following on with what she is saying, you get a feel after a while for which similar types within families will tend to cross-breed and which never will.

On top of that, you will find that there are various specific combinations you will tend to hear about particular fish. And your goals will play into that. Obviously some people hope certain fish will breed while others very much don't want them too, so you have to be careful about recommendations right from the start on that point. In the end its so particular to specific fish that you end up just having to throw out various combos you're interested in on the forum and see what comments you get. A lot of things overlap, like various species liking to be in various minimum sized shoals (for example many tetras and cories) and often the situation where people recommend several females per male, as with some of the livebeaers.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

re the KH I'm a little confused, we usually work on a scale of 0-10 or there abouts for KH, I don't know what those measurements are in to be giving you 40-80???

if it translates as 4-8 then that's a pretty wide bracket, if it's 4 it's fine, 8 is high and you'd expect a high pH. But that's purely guesswork as I don't know what scale of KH the strips could be measuring on and they're about as reliable as stopping a stranger on the street and asking them to have a guess at what your KH might be!

WD any thoughts?