84l (22gal) Fishless Cycle With A Semi-mature Filter.

[Lazerus]

Hi all...

Well, after adding 5ppm of Ammonia this morning, after only 12hrs with the spare mature filter running alongside the cycling filter in the tank...

Ammonia:0.25ppm
Nitrite:2ppm
Nitrate: Didn't do it as its easier to read in the daylight.
pH: 7

So...big changes there!

Yes, I know it sounds crazy that I only put the spare filter in today, but its not necessarily true.

In the first week of starting out with this fishless cycle, I had cut of two pieces of mature filter (approx ¼ off each) out of my main filter and the spare filter and put it into the new filter casing. The filter sponge from the new filter had been also in my tank for several weeks, this was how I was getting Ammonia down to 0ppm after 12hrs in the first 2 weeks...

I had added some brand new sponge to replace the old sponges I had taken out of each filter, and I was leaving them alone for about 2 weeks to build up again in my main tank with my fish, to naturally build up more bacteria.

The thing that knocked the new tanks cycle out completely was when I went away for those 5 days...it totally set me right back. Its a pity really....

So, I felt that today would be a good day to transfer over the spare filter in its entirety into my cycling tank to speed things up abit...and clearly its working. I've just got the one filter in my main tank now, which I am monitoring in case of a 'mini cycle'...but I doubt that will happen.

So tonight, as my Ammonia is not down to zero, I won't be adding any ammonia, but I'd added a good dose of bicarb to bring it up into the 8's!

Or should I add Ammonia...even though its only at 0.25ppm?


Edited to say: Dave, about the bicarb, yes, I'm hoping that's the case alright....it would be great if it all stabilizes, like you say, when the cycle is complete. My pH is 7.8 out of the tap so I was hoping for a bit of a pH drop from my bogwood and organic substrate, but not too much!

 

[waterdrop]

ha, yes, I know that dave. What was actually driving me to mention that bit was that I'd been reading a section of Walstad's book the night before and she was talking about an improvement she'd got with plants that like to take up ammonium, by reducing her volume of biofiltration. I just was hesitating mentioning her name as I was remembering that I'd kick off you going ballistic at the mention of her name (or was it AC, I couldn't really remember which of you I remembered reading that had some pretty strong disagreement with her stuff??)

~~waterdrop~~

I know of people that dose urea in to their tanks, but it seems a worthless exercise to me, plus a little dodgy with fish around.

I am certainly not qualified to pull Diana`s ideas to bits, and have read her book cover to cover. She should issue it without the allelopathy section, IMO. She is also a member of a forum on which I moderate, but she never posts.

The API KH test kit measures total alkalinity, not KH.

It is also worth pointing out, Lazerus, that once your cycle is complete, there will be no real need to buffer your water. I get by fine with a KH around 1dKH (measured at work).

Dave.

Oh good, maybe I'm remembering some comment you made about her and allelopathy and exaggerated in my mind. Good to hear you've read the book and then -do- approach it item by item. I find myself interested that there should be areas of overlap between the two approaches (high tech and el-natural) even though one is better off not attempting to mix things from them when actually doing a tank. I'm not all the way through her book quite even once yet, but I'm especially interested right now as I hope to meet her friday. She'll be speaking at our local swap meet. --wd--

 

[Lazerus]

Ha,ha....lads, you are making me laugh!!! I love reading your posts, I just wish I was equipped to join in on the discussion!! Good luck with meeting Diana Walstad on Friday waterdrop! That's pretty cool!

Anyway, this morning, really, really good news:

Ammonia: 0ppm - beautiful shade of yellow!
Nitrite: 0ppm - fabulous shade of sky blue! (Does the heart good!)
Nitrate:30ppm - little darker than 20ppm, but not quite 40ppm
pH 7.6

I have added my 5ppm of Ammonia and a sprinkle of bicarb....so see you back here in 12hrs!

 

[Dave Spencer]

Oh good, maybe I'm remembering some comment you made about her and allelopathy and exaggerated in my mind.

Why am I getting this strange feeling that there has been an ulterior motive to a few of the things you have asked me lately, WD.

I'm not all the way through her book quite even once yet, but I'm especially interested right now as I hope to meet her friday. She'll be speaking at our local swap meet. --wd--

How come you get to meet all the big wigs in the US? Whose next for you WD, Takashi Amano? Oh, and tell Diana to start posting on UKAPS!

El Natural or low tech are not routes I ever really intend going down, as they are not really condusive to aquascaping IMO.

Dave.

 

[Lazerus]

So...this evenings results after 12hrs with 5ppm of ammonia.

Ammonia: 0.25ppm
Nitrite: 2pmm
Nitrate: will do tomorrow.
pH: 7.8

Added a smidgen of bicarb & decided to bring my Ammonia back up to 5ppm tonight. Just to see what happens tomorrow.

Ok so, that's if for now.

 

[Lazerus]

After 12hrs of 5ppm ammonia:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: Unsure...its unreadable.
Nitrate: 40pppm
pH:7.8

 

[waterdrop]

Oh good, maybe I'm remembering some comment you made about her and allelopathy and exaggerated in my mind.

Why am I getting this strange feeling that there has been an ulterior motive to a few of the things you have asked me lately, WD.

I'm not all the way through her book quite even once yet, but I'm especially interested right now as I hope to meet her friday. She'll be speaking at our local swap meet. --wd--

How come you get to meet all the big wigs in the US? Whose next for you WD, Takashi Amano? Oh, and tell Diana to start posting on UKAPS!

El Natural or low tech are not routes I ever really intend going down, as they are not really condusive to aquascaping IMO.

Dave.

Ha!, no ulterior motive Dave. I'm straight up. I'm truly a beginner at planted, just as I hope I've presented myself, but I'm probably a bit strange for attempting to understand what I'm getting into more than often happens. I do get a fair amount of my entertainment from the process, the reading, the history and stuff like that although I know its often not the best or fastest way to learn. For my own experience I put you (and AC and Aaron) right up there with Diana and Tom Barr and and Farmer and Peter (of PFK) and some of the other AGA people I've met. I just really enjoy thinking there are insights that everybody brings to the table and I'm having fun trying to collect lots of them, although usually I'm not smart enough, nor do I have a good enough memory or note-taking abilities to keep up with a new thing as complicated as this hobby of yours!

Hey , I actually *did* talk to Takashi while I was down in Atlanta. It was in the hall and his interpreter was not there and I don't know Japanese, so it was just a polite exchange, but it was fun nontheless. He is an awesome photographer, I hadn't realized the extent of that.

Well, I took off work early and am just killing some minutes before I hit the Interstate to Raleigh for Diana's workshop/talk. With my luck she'll be sick and I'll have missed her once again, but I've got my fingers crossed. I'm beginning to get a feel for what you mean about El Natural and low tech... the plants grow so slowly that its hard to "try stuff." I've had the smallest bit of success lately and I believe its because I finally realized my tank was too "new and clean" and started dosing my excel and ferts more heavily.. but I'm low light and things are still slow. Still, I've definately got some questions stored up for Diana, so we'll see what transpires! Off and Away! --WD--

 

[waterdrop]

OK, She was -not- out sick and I finally got to meet her!! It was great! She set up a whole tank on a table right next to me as 15 or so of us watched and discussed things with her. We discussed a lot of different types of commercial bagged potting soils available over here and the pros and cons of these various ones. I was amazed at how the little turbidity there was in the water of the particular soil she used tonight. Anyway I got to ask lots of questions from my chapters I've been reading, so it was really interesting.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Lazerus]

That sounds incredible Waterdrop!!! I'd say you were in your element!

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, and other good talks on breeding cories, ocean acidification, photographing your tank.. definately a lot of fun, although the most fun for me was talking about planted tanks with 3 or 4 other enthusiasts of that type who where there, including Diana.

Man did I see a lot of cory pics! Did you know there are over 200 type described and named and more than 250 beyond that just have numbers and are not even really named yet?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Lazerus]

~~~~This thread is now officially closed!!! Thanks to everyone who helped me over the last few weeks...~~~~