84l (22gal) Fishless Cycle With A Semi-mature Filter.

[Lazerus]

Ok, this is going to be my last question of the day.....

I have a new 84L tank set up and a semi-mature filter sponge for my new filter...i.e the sponge has been in my older, mature tank for a number of weeks now.

I am about to put this sponge into the filter casing in my new 84L tank....and let it run away, until I'm ready to put fish in.

I don't have any fish in the new tank currently, so I was going to use Jeyes Kleen off multi-purpose household cleaner Ammonia to 'mimic' my fish so that I keep up the good bacteria growth.

So....the burning question!

How much of this stuff do I use

There is no ingredients on the back of the bottle so I can't tell what percentage of ammonia is in the bottle.

I used the calculator <a href="http/www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm</a> and it say 4.42ml for an 84L tank...but this is for fishless cycling going from zero bacteria.

So seeing as I have a mature-ish filter in the tank...how do I work this one out? My brain is frazzled!

 

[stickyemu]

i would just put 4.42ml and when i drops to zero top it back up just keep doing that to keep the bact alive
that is if the ammonia is the 9.5% solution

to find out you could get a 1L jug of water add 0.05ml of ammonia test the water and see if the readings are 4.5/5.00 you should be ok i think one of the pros will tell you if i'm right

 

[Craster]

The fact that the filter is mature doesn't matter - you still want it to be able to reduce 5ppm Ammonia to zero and zero nitrites in 12 hours. You will be hoping for it to do that immediately, or at least to get there a lot quicker than if you start with a new filter, but the objective is the same - and the bacteria need to be fed the same until such a time as you add fish.

A bit of googling reveals that the stuff you have seems to be suitable for cycling:

http/www.africanaquatic.com/index.php?ma...products_id=130

The link suggests that it's 9% and doesn't have any perfumes added.

 

[Lazerus]

Ah excellent...Stickyemu & Craster....that was exactly the information I was looking for...

That link confirms that Jeyes 'Kleen off' Household cleaner does contain 9% Ammonia and therefore the online calculator will work for my situation. Brilliant!

I simply couldn't find any site saying those ingredients in black and white! (I find it strange that they don't list the ingredients on the back? Surely they should?)

Anyway, I'm going to put in 4.42ml now and then stick the filter sponge in, and let it run away. Yay! Onwards and upwards! One step further!

I'll check the stats tomorrow morning....I'll know then if my sponge is cycled or not....although I imagine it will mini-cycle anyway as the current fish I have in my 10gal where the sponge was 'seeding' won't be enough to match the 4.42ml of ammonia, I imagine?

Hmm, I dunno ....anyway, Great! Off I go Tomorrow will reveal all!

Edited because I left a word out.

 

[Lazerus]

Actually, I just checked the calculator again....and adjusted the % ammonia content.

So, for anyone who might be looking in...

You will need 4.67ml of ammonia for an 84L tank using a product with 9% ammonia in it to bring it up to a desired level of 5ppm.

Oky doky....

Now all I need to know is how to get the ammonia liquid into my plastic syringe dropper yoke?

 

[OldMan47]

Next thing to be aware of Lazerus, is that you may get a mini-cycle when you first go to 5 ppm. We use 5 ppm to be darned sure that there are plenty of bacteria for our fish we intend to add. Because a mature filter has not been dealing with maximum biological loads, it will only have enough bacteria for what it has seen in the past. That might only equate to 3 or 4 ppm. Don't be too surprised if the filter reacts as if you had suddenly added several fish to a mature tank. It will straighten out pretty fast but may look like it is not fully mature for a short time.

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks OldMan47 (which is not old at all by the way! )

Yes, I'm expecting that 'mini cycle' alright.... as I mentioned in my previous post, I don't have alot of fish so seeing as the 5ppm would be at 'full capacity' for my 84L then I'll be hoping to see a spike...but what I'm also hoping to see is a reading of less than than the 5ppm after 12hrs which will confirm that my filter is half way there and on its way to being fully cycled.

I'm about to do my tests now as its approx 12 hrs since I added the ammonia.

I'll be back in a while.

 

[Lazerus]

Well....it was as I expected....

The Ammonia reading was 2ppm after 12hrs...not bad! Did a Nitrite reading but it was 0ppm...so its not processing any Nitrite yet.

I bet by tonight the Ammonia will be right down again....I'll add another 4.6ml again then.

So, my filter sponge is processing some of the Ammonia anyway, which is very good news. It wasn't a waste putting it in my old tank then, even if it wasn't in its filter casing...I just had it logged between the glass and my other running filter.

Plus this Ammonia amount is at full capacity for an 84L, so I think my filter media has done really well over 12hrs considering!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

no the 0 nitrite is very good news, if you had no NBacs then you'd see a reading of nitrite by now. 3ppm of ammonia would have processed into 8.1ppm of nitrite over the last 12 hrs, so you'd see nitrite if you had no NBacs, you've obviously got a good strong NBac's colony and you just need to bump your ABacs up a bit.

 

[Lazerus]

Wow!!!! Really!!! This is great news so...the Best!

I'm so happy!

Should I check my Nitrates so? Or is that necessary?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

always helpful to get a full set of tests if you have time. nitrate is unlikely to cause a problem but can if it gets super high so worth keeping an eye on it every couple of days really.

 

[Lazerus]

Just did an ammonia test there....and I was surprised to see it hasn't changed since this morning. Still at 2ppm...

I would have thought it would have eaten into it by now?

Hmmm. Not fully sure what to do next. I take it I don't add anymore ammonia until this drops to zero?

 

[waterdrop]

Another thing Laz, just because you found the 9% statement for the KleenOff and used the calculator, you should not completely assume that it gave you 5ppm ammonia at your add. Its better to test the ammonia add, perhaps a half hour or hour after its had time to mix and see how close it is to 5ppm. It should be pretty close but its always good to check.

About it seeming now to sit at 2ppm, I wouldn't worry too much yet as you've not got a terribly stable situation yet. You've yanked the bacteria out of their previous environment and put them in a new one, probably with less ammonia and then dumped in more ammonia, so there's a good chance their going to react with the typical bacteria reaction and become a little erratic for a while.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

It is not unusual to take a day or two for the bacteria to start processing well. They have been resting and trying to survive while short of ammonia, now the food supply is rich but it takes them a little time to get going again. Not taking anything away from what WD told you but I am just giving a bit more perspective.


Side note on age, 47 is my DOB not my age.

 

[Lazerus]

Oh right...as in the 4th of July? Cool! Or is it 7th of April....

Anyway, Ammonia is not changed one bit...just did a test there...in fact...it possibly looks more like 4ppm....how could that be?

Didn't think it could go up?

Your right when you say erratic! ha,ha!