Yet Another Fishless Cycle Question

[Attilauk]

the tank has quite a few plants in it (74) but they are all very small at the moment, i bought the Explore collection from these guys http/www.aquarium-gardening.com/collections.php

the filter outlet is about 50mm below the surface of the water, there is a fair bit of surface movement but not much noise if you know what i mean.

 

[locust267]

Hi Attila, I'm in a similar situation to you having 260Litre planted tank. I've been going for 5.5 weeks and only started seeing the ammonia drop significantly from the 23rd July.

Are you waiting for the ammonia to drop to 0/0.25 before you add any ammonia next?

I would wait until about wednesday of next week and if you still haven't seen a drop do as close to a 100% water change as possible recharging the ammonia to only about 3ppm (thats what I done as I think 5ppm was tooo much for my filter causing the process to stall). Also if you are using a hose to add the water add most of the dechlor at the beginnning if not carry on mixing it in in buckets.

With regards to Seachem products, they are very good

However I remember somewhere, not sure where that iron may help build the bacteria in the filter so that is fab.

BUT.... Somewhere else it stated that you are very unlikely to have low potassium in the tank and you have to be sure that you need to add it before you actually do as too much potassium can also cause the filter to stall

I would carry on using the seachem iron for now, not sure on the excel as haven't read up on it but I would try stopping the Potassium one unless you have tested and have low K results.

Also it sound like you may be adding a little too much, I use seachem flourish and for the first 2 weeks added 5ml of it 2x per week but now only feed it once per week. The problem being your tank will soon be covered in algea, including the plants so I wouldn't want to overfeed the tank at this stage.

What substrate did you use and how heavily planted it the tank?

Vicki

*Only just seen your last post so know what you have now, are they easy plants to keep? I would just carry on using SC iron maybe excel but only as often as the label says.

 

[Efren]

Cheers minxfishy, i will check my PH as soon as i get home and post up the results

that's a bit different than my results - -
started Fishless cycling 4days ago -
and I've got a 0.25 reading today for NitrITES...

Git

my appologies mate..
if u found my post offensive- -
just sharing my results - - cause i'm still learning myself -

don't get me wrong - LOL- i was talkin' about me when i said "still NEW.. very new"

 

[Attilauk]

cheers for the Advice Vicki

i was following the guidlines on the bottles and the instructions that came with the plants for the K & Fe additives, the Florish Excel is an alternative to CO2 injection and seems to be working very well. i have had an Algae bloom in the tank but nothing too major. i will hold off on the K additive for a week and see if it makes any difference

i've used API pure laterite mixed with sand as my substrate. i will try and get some pics tonight

Efren - don't worry mate, i was only joking im genuinely happy for you that your cycle seems to be going in the right direction.

 

[Efren]

whew - -thnx

hope your cycle goes well too....

 

[locust267]

cheers for the Advice Vicki

i was following the guidlines on the bottles and the instructions that came with the plants for the K & Fe additives, the Florish Excel is an alternative to CO2 injection and seems to be working very well. i have had an Algae bloom in the tank but nothing too major. i will hold off on the K additive for a week and see if it makes any difference

i've used API pure laterite mixed with sand as my substrate. i will try and get some pics tonight

Efren - don't worry mate, i was only joking im genuinely happy for you that your cycle seems to be going in the right direction.

I've been told not to use CO2 in my tank even when it's fully grown it actually will be fairly medium planted tank. I would say if the plants grow ok without the excel to lay off that too perhaps but cutting down gradually each day. I only say it as the algea withh enjoy munching on it as well as the plants lol.

Basically I have TetraPlant substrate which although OK is far from the best and add my Flourish once per week. The plants have been in there 3 weeks now and in that time the Vallis Torta has gone from 10.5" to 20", the red ludwiga from 6.5" to 13", the Polysperma from 8" to 17" and that's all whilst I'm cycling.

I will read up on the benefits of CO2 once my cycle is over but really I think if the plants you keep are easy to maintain you may as well keep the maintainance basic like mine.

I didnt realise it was only thursday today (had a really bad day so far and brain all over the place) therefore I'd probably only wait til monday before you do the water change but if anything drops in the meantime keep it going

Vicki

 

[Dave Spencer]

I would say if the plants grow ok without the excel to lay off that too perhaps but cutting down gradually each day. I only say it as the algea withh enjoy munching on it as well as the plants lol.

Excel contains Polycyclogluteraldehyde which is deadly to some algaes. It will be of great benefit to your plants, so keep dosing it.

You have a slightly strange dosing regime with plants, adding K in isolation. If you have a low light tank, you may not need to add this. It is the light levels that determine how quickly your plants grow and, therefore, what needs dosing.

You have algae because you are adding ammonia, not because of any of the ferts you are adding. Keep up with fertilising to ensure your plants stay healthy.

I find it strange that people add ferts to their tanks, yet believe they cause algae. Why add them then?

Dave.

 

[locust267]

I would say if the plants grow ok without the excel to lay off that too perhaps but cutting down gradually each day. I only say it as the algea withh enjoy munching on it as well as the plants lol.

Excel contains Polycyclogluteraldehyde which is deadly to some algaes. It will be of great benefit to your plants, so keep dosing it.

You have a slightly strange dosing regime with plants, adding K in isolation. If you have a low light tank, you may not need to add this. It is the light levels that determine how quickly your plants grow and, therefore, what needs dosing.

You have algae because you are adding ammonia, not because of any of the ferts you are adding. Keep up with fertilising to ensure your plants stay healthy.

I find it strange that people add ferts to their tanks, yet believe they cause algae. Why add them then?

Dave.

As I mentioned in a previous post I didn't know what excel was, when attila came back saying it is used instead of C02 then thats all the info I have and as CO2 isn't necessary thats why I said may be worth cutting back. If it contains something that is worth using I didn't know but made that clear in my original post.

I add liquid ferts to my tank to help the plants grow, the algea doesnt really bother me a great deal as I know one day my tank will look good, however knowing that my tank is cycling and already contains alot of ammonia for the algea to grow I personally wouldn't add any extra ferts than what was reccommended. Plus the fact the residue of the flourish also attached to the plants and the algea although this is easy to wipe off it gives off a more brownish appearance than normal. No point in wasting money by dosing too much or using ferts of the wrong kind.

Generally speaking though some plants do very well even though a tank has rubbish lighting, no proper substrate, no liquid ferts, no CO2 and if your tank does have easy to care for plants then as long as you have a good substrate, good lighting and dose some liquid ferts I dont see how you can go far wrong.

If however your plants are harder to care for (if so then I must of read the wrong package in your previous link) then your best bet is to head over to the planted tank section, in fact pop over there anyway.

I would personally do your own research on the potassium attila as I know I hear if you have too much in the tank it can be detrimental to the beneficial bacteria and also that the added iron will help.

Although now this is starting to get a little off topic, the fert dosing is not likely to be affecting you cycle. The one main thing to remember from all of this is if you see no improvement by monday do as close to a 100% water change as possible recharging the ammonia to about 3ppm thereafter, if you do see a drop over the weekend then hang in there.

Also with regards to the plants, as mentioned above prob best to head over to planted section where you can get more accurate advice on the ferts and plants you have and possibly the science section for more info on the use of K whilst cycling.

Vicki

 

[Attilauk]

cheers for the advice guys, i had heard that excel was good for reducing algae, now i now why

the only reason i have been adding K in isolation is because the instructions i got with the plants said to, i will stop for a while and see what happens over the weekend.

im going to have a good nose around the planted section now

 

[Dave Spencer]

As I mentioned in a previous post I didn't know what excel was, when attila came back saying it is used instead of C02 then thats all the info I have and as CO2 isn't necessary thats why I said may be worth cutting back. If it contains something that is worth using I didn't know but made that clear in my original post.

Not trying to pick an argument, but who says CO2 isn`t necessary? Excel is an organic carbon source, as an alternative to carbon from gaseous or aqueous CO2. The carbon is vital no matter what. Light levels determine whether Excel is adequate or whether CO2 injection is necessary. All but the lowest light planted tanks will benefit from CO2 injection. Advising cutting back on carbon is dodgy advice IMO.

Dave.

 

[locust267]

As I mentioned in a previous post I didn't know what excel was, when attila came back saying it is used instead of C02 then thats all the info I have and as CO2 isn't necessary thats why I said may be worth cutting back. If it contains something that is worth using I didn't know but made that clear in my original post.

Not trying to pick an argument, but who says CO2 isn`t necessary? Excel is an organic carbon source, as an alternative to carbon from gaseous or aqueous CO2. The carbon is vital no matter what. Light levels determine whether Excel is adequate or whether CO2 injection is necessary. All but the lowest light planted tanks will benefit from CO2 injection. Advising cutting back on carbon is dodgy advice IMO.

Dave.

Well I only know from what I've seen and been told on here. I have been advised in some of my threads and also read in other people threads that unless you know what you are doing with co2 you are best to leave it well alone and also that only heavily planted tanks which require high lighting will require co2.

Basically to sum up what I've been told co2 isn't necessary but will certainly help IF YOU KNOW what you are doing, which TBH me and most newbies wouldn't have a clue and just getting your head around the cycling is hard enough to begin with

I must admit though I do find it very strange that if Excel is needed as much as people say it is why on earth did noone tell me to buy this along with the flourish, esp if they were advising against CO2?

Vicki

 

[Dave Spencer]

Well I only know from what I've seen and been told on here. I have been advised in some of my threads and also read in other people threads that unless you know what you are doing with co2 you are best to leave it well alone and also that only heavily planted tanks which require high lighting will require co2.

Planted tanks are driven by light, and it is these levels that will determine whether you can get away with just ambient CO2, whether you need Excel, or whether you have to go down the gaseous CO2 route. All my tanks are high light and I use pressurised.

The advice you have been given may well be correct for your circumstances, but Excel is a well regarded product, and will benefit most planted tanks with stock lighting IMO. One thing Excel will do is keep BBA and staghorn algae at bay, which are two types of algae closely associated with CO2 issues.

Dave.

 

[locust267]

Ok thanks for that, my guess is that most people probably just dont know enough about excel.

I'll have a little read up on it over the weekend

 

[Attilauk]

ok im home and i have just tested my tank.

it looks like the Ammonia has dropped slightly, not quite to 2ppm but its definately lighter than yesterday

still no Nitrite though.

my PH according to the API high range test was 8.2, thats higher than i said earlier but then i have been using tetra test 5 in 1 strips for my PH and hardness tests (interestingly that still says 7.2). i then tested my tap water and that is showing a PH of 7.2.

 

[Axleuk]

the tank has quite a few plants in it (74) but they are all very small at the moment, i bought the Explore collection from these guys [URL="http/www.aquarium-gardening.com/collections.php"]http/www.aquarium-gardening.com/collections.php[/URL]

the filter outlet is about 50mm below the surface of the water, there is a fair bit of surface movement but not much noise if you know what i mean.

That website is awesome, i have book marked it, and when i get a much bigger tank, i am certianly going to get my plants from them. Fish Haven is my favourite and would show off the fish beautifully.