Yellow Belly Slider Turtle In This Setup?

[didz04]

Hi I would like to keep a baby yellow belly slider turtle in a 24" x 16" x 13" shallow tank.

I am planning to keep;

Dock station
UVB + Heat light in one
Heater
Sand
Bogwood
Plants

This is all I can think of is there anything else needed? Can I keep 2 together and is it possible to keep anything else with them as I was thinking of a blue lobster?

Would sand be a problem meaning would they end up eating it for sure and also the sand I have is aragonite which I understand will rise the ph but what if I were to keep it down with the bogwood lowering the ph?

Thanks

 

[lloyd]

Your tanks faaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrr to small and they actually enjoy deep water

 

[didz04]

What is minimum size tank and the 2ft is temporary whilst my 4ft tank is getting setup. Any more help?

 

[lloyd]

Im not to sure tbh. My personal opinion is that there not suited to home aquaria as turtles in the wild can be found in depths of 5mtrs plus and anyone with a pond in a hot climate would tell you what active swimmers they are

 

[didz04]

Thanks for your input. I understand your point of view but then that means you must have the same view on fishes that they shouldn't be kept in aquariums as the majority of them also come from the deeper seas? Right?

 

[9murphy9]

that tank is to small in afraid in your 4ft you could have to musk they only grow about 5 inch and can probably live with fish, i have 2 male Mississippi map turtles that have lived with all sorts

 

[Asp]

Right, firstly it has to be said that people make too many generalisations when it comes to terrapins. There is a huge difference between species, and multiple species are frequently sold under the same name. For example two species of musk turtles are commonly imported - Sternotherus oderatus (Kinosternon oderatum - they are in the process of merging the musks and the muds) the common musk, and Sternotherus carinatus, the razor back musk. A large female oderatus might reach 5 inches, a large female carinatus might be twice that size. They're the same size when they're sold and are often simply sold as 'musk turtle'. For that matter I have a Mississippi mud turtle, Kinosternon subrubrum hippocrepis that was the only one of his species in a tank of other 'musk turtles'.

'Yellow belly' has also become something of a generic term. It normally means either a true yellow slider (Trachemys scripta scripta) or a cumberland slider (Trachemys scripta troosti), but I've also seen a number of species of cooter (Psuedemys sp.) being sold under the name. whilst the sliders have identical care, the cooters are much larger, longer lived and have quite different requirements.

SO - if you want to get a terrapin then the first thing you have to do is decide what species you want and then make sure you get the right animal. Otherwise you might as well decide you want a fishtank, buy a setup for a small group of neon tetras and then go out and buy a baby oscar. Terrapins are terribly missold and seem to be looked down upon by the fishkeeping community for some reason.

They do require very different care from fish, and I could go over the points of basic care if you want, but this is a fairly weighty post already.

However - to answer the points you have raised;

Most species of imported terrapin are temperate north American and simply don't need heating in an indoors tank.

As a general rule terrapin tanks do best with no substrate whatsoever. This will make cleaning a lot easier and you don't risk impaction if they swallow any.

They will destroy any plants. temporary floating plants like elodea are a good idea, but you need to replace them every few weeks.

Water parameters are fairly moot. Most terrapins are hardy and will put up with most water.

They will largely ignore other turtles of the same size. They can certainally live in groups if you have the room, but frankly I don't think they care either way.

Species dependant they will try and eat anything small enough or soft enough that they can catch. Sliders in particular can be quite aggressive. Terrapins CAN live with fish, but only fish that are large enough and if they are in a (very) big water volume. This again depends a lot on the species and is not reccomended.

 

[didz04]

Thanks thats some great info there. I guess after researching I am better of with the musk turtle. The only problem I guess now is if I find the right one as mentioned. I know a lot of places selling yellow belly sliders but not heard or seen any of the map or musk turtles but I think I just need a better look around.

Thanks again

 

[9murphy9]

i'd keep away from maps mate as it's hit and miss mine where male and are fully grown at 5 inch but females can grow a foot.Try to find a common musk there's generally ain't the best swimmers so build the water depth up slowly perhaps a inch of water a week but they can't hunt fish that well and ASP there is some things in your list i agree with but also some i disagree with,they will destroy plants but do well with plastic ones the gravel i think i important as they like to dig and root around in it especially musk and also it's not harder to clean than if you had a pleco or goldfish,I also find if you introduce them to fish of a reasonable size above 3 inch when the turtles are very young they never see them as food and temp wise is around 24 degrees so as your in the UK your probably going to need a heater even if it's just incase and i'd say 30 gallon is the minimal you could have them in when there with fish just make sure you have some plastic plants and caves for thing to retreat th and if you place some busy plants they will sleep in them so i think if they will interact with the stuff you put them in with it's cruel to keep them in a bare tank and if you not prepared to go the extra mile to clean them and vac the gravel your obviously not dedicated to having turtles.

Alex

PS: If you stick them in with a bouncy ball they will bat it around together as you may not need two but it's nicer as you can see them interact,they will look after each other and sleep together.

 

[didz04]

Thanks that really helps and glad to hear I can add some fish but I'll make sure they are 3" plus. In terms of the PH can they tolerate around the 8 mark or what that be wrong?

 

[didz04]

Also I am looking to go for the musk turtles. I have kept a yellow belly slider before with fish while it was small and had no problems while it was 1-3" but when it reached around the 4" mark it went for my 2 pictus catfish. It wasn't something we just tried out of the blue, we were told by the fish shop it would be fine I guess they were right as it was only till it outgrew the fish. We moved it on right after but now I have been told that they shouldn't be kept with fish or in tanks so I understand that, please no lectures on this lol as that was a few years ago.

 

[9murphy9]

no we have all made mistakes,the ph of 8 will be a little to high for fish as i would avoid African cichlids as there quite nippy (there the only fish i can think of that live in 8 ph) if you can lower it to around 7 we could work with something,if you fancy cichlids i'd go for Americans witch are under 6 inch fully grown.if not there are loads of colourful stuff we could think about,could you please post your preference of fish (like colorful or cihlids stuff like that ) and tank size,filter and stats and hopefully we can figure out a stocking list,keeping turtles is a bit in the middle for reptile lovers and fish lovers so i find it is quite frowned upon and everybody says "any fish in with turtles will eventually end up turtle food " but i belive it is certainly doable considering you are willing to put in the effort,but it do find it is just as much work as a reguar tank.

Alex

 

[Asp]

I'm going to respectfully dissagree with a couple of the points made by the other Alex, but frankly they are minor points. With regards to my dedication to keeping turtles I might point out that I have been keeping, breeding, rehoming and rehabilitating healthy, happy and highly active turtles of many species for quite a few years now. What I say is from my experience, and from that of many other experienced terrapin keepers. Also, I do not have bare tanks, all my animals are provided with adequate tunnels, wood, cork bark, basking areas and pond weed, I just don't use gravel or expect or expect a fixed planting system.

The gravel issue - gravel can be a problem. Terrapins have been known to swallow it if they can fit it in their mouths, and this can cause impaction which can be fatal. This is certainally not guaranteed to happen, but be aware that it can. Also, sharp gravel can, in some cases, scratch the plastron (underside of the shell), causing damage and infections. Certainally you can have gravel, but it is generally easier not to. If you decide to have gravel then use a round gravel that is big enough that your terrapins are not in danger of swallowing it.

Regarding heaters - again as I have said this is a species dependent issue, however the majority of imported species are from the USA and simply don't need heating indoors in the UK. Common musks in particular have a natural range that extends far north into Canada; heating them is pointless.

I personally wouldn't use plastic plants, but as long as they dont have easily swallowable leaves I guess they should be OK.

Sooner or later sliders will view anything as food, Trachemys are one of the more aggressive and predatory groups.

With Sternotherus species your main problem when it comes to stocking them with fish is water volume. These are species that dont so much swim as walk allong the bottom 90% of the time, and particularly when hatchlings really need quite shallow water to be happy (3 inches is plenty for a baby), so that's really going to cut down your water volume. I use large, shallow containers for raising muds and musks, for example under bed storarge boxes are excellent. On the plus side as long as you have the water volume to support the fish, musks tend to not be able to catch them. Stick with smaller, hardy, fast swimming fish like white clouds or dannios and you'll be ok.

Obviously there are some tank basics you need to make sure you've got - No lid to avoid humidity issues, decent UV bulb, heat lamp, proper basking area that is large enough for ALL your animals to be entirely out of the water at once (though musks don't use them as much as other species) etc.

 

[9murphy9]

i wasn't insulting you keeping skills that bit was more directed to didz that he must be dedicated enough to care for the turtles,also in your first post it cam across that you where suggesting a bare tank and i believe it is cruel,gravel i find is best to get from B&Q as you can quite chunky gravel that's to big to swallow and musk do best in around 25 degrees Celsius so on cold night here you'll need heater and especially if your keeping fish with them.plant wise if you go for the harder types of plastic plants instead of silk plants,once there around 4 inch you can probably have the water level at around 12 inch as long as you have something trapping over the sides of the yank so they can use it to climb up.

 

[Asp]

Granted, once your musk is a bit bigger the tank can get a lot deeper - I was only talking about the first couple of years when they're still tiny!

The 24-26 degree temperature that you normally see given is a general 'musk turtle' temp. A lot of the species of musks and muds are found further south. If you look at, as an example, the razor back (Sternotherus carinatus/ Kinsternon carinatum) you will see that it isn't found farther north than mid Oklahoma, and would certainally benefit from heated water. The common musk (Sternotherus oderatus/ Kinosternon oderatum) has a range that extends as far south as Louisiana and as far north as Vermont and into Ontario. In terms of temperature they are much more tolerant than most terrapins, and can happily be kept without a heater indoors in the UK. In fact, I know people who have year-round outdoors setups in the UK, though these mostly involve fairly deep ponds.

It is also worth noting that the best way to encourage breeding is to lower the water temperature.

You certainally can heat them, but you don't need to.