Will This Work?

[andyourblueblood]

this is not for critism on my stock.

it is a 5g planted.

male betta
female betta
seminole killifish
2 oto cats
peppered cory
2 cherry shrimp
1 amanno shrimp
2 bamboo shrimp
about 15 ghost shrimp
a ruby ramhorn
and a male paradise gourami

 

[dizzied]

If you add a fiddler, you've managed to create the worst stocklist I've seen for a 5g. How can you really expect people not to criticize it?

 

[three-fingers]

Yeah, ditto.

If it's "not for critism", you should remove it from your post.
This is a public forum full of people who mostly have the animals welfare first in mind.

I have no idea why you would want to keep all that in a 5gal, unless you enjoy watching animals living in poor unnatural conditions.
There's just soo much wrong with that list, it's really stupid, they would all die anyway and you'd just have a huge waste of money.

 

[andyourblueblood]

how is that affecting the welfare of the fish? please tell me. i would love to know why this stock list is so horrible.

 

[three-fingers]

I'll break it down for you .

"male betta" - Fair enough for a planted 5 gal.

"female betta" - A really bad idea to have in with the male, will end in a disaster. As soon as he feels like it, he will try to get it on with the female, build a bubblenest, and 'defend' it from everything else in the tank. Due to the small size of the tank, this will lead to an extremely stressed fish that will be doing it's very best to kill everything in the tank.

"seminole killifish" - an active 6" long fish is a really unfair choice for a small tank like this.

"2 oto cats" - Should really be kept in bigger groups, these guys live in shoals of hundreds in the wild.

"peppered cory" - Same as above, except grows larger and ideally should be kept in cooler water.

"2 cherry shrimp" - OK if it's planted heavily enough, as the bettas and 'gourami' will eat them.

"1 amanno shrimp" - Wooo, finally something suitable.

"2 bamboo shrimp" - Grow too large for your tank at around 5", and the specialised feeding methods make them especially unsuitable for such a small volume of water that is heavily stocked.

"about 15 ghost shrimp" - I'm guessing these guys are tiny at the moment, but when fully grown 15 ghost shrimp would be too much for that tank considering the other livestock.

"a ruby ramhorn" - Nothing wrong here, expect tonnes more at some point in the future though.

"and a male paradise gourami" - IMO not suited for small tanks, but some would disagree. Regardless, he is a terrible tankmate for the male betta, expect them to spontaneously rip each other apart soon.


If you thought it was acceptable, why did you say "this is not for critism on my stock"? You must already know this is a very irresponsible stocking.

To answer your original question, red claw crabs are a 'no'. They need marine aquarium salt in their water and a decent amount of land to come out on to.

 

[andyourblueblood]

I'll break it down for you .

"male betta" - Fair enough for a planted 5 gal.

"female betta" - A really bad idea to have in with the male, will end in a disaster. As soon as he feels like it, he will try to get it on with the female, build a bubblenest, and 'defend' it from everything else in the tank. Due to the small size of the tank, this will lead to an extremely stressed fish that will be doing it's very best to kill everything in the tank.

"seminole killifish" - an active 6" long fish is a really unfair choice for a small tank like this.

"2 oto cats" - Should really be kept in bigger groups, these guys live in shoals of hundreds in the wild.

"peppered cory" - Same as above, except grows larger and ideally should be kept in cooler water.

"2 cherry shrimp" - OK if it's planted heavily enough, as the bettas and 'gourami' will eat them.

"1 amanno shrimp" - Wooo, finally something suitable.

"2 bamboo shrimp" - Grow too large for your tank at around 5", and the specialised feeding methods make them especially unsuitable for such a small volume of water that is heavily stocked.

"about 15 ghost shrimp" - I'm guessing these guys are tiny at the moment, but when fully grown 15 ghost shrimp would be too much for that tank considering the other livestock.

"a ruby ramhorn" - Nothing wrong here, expect tonnes more at some point in the future though.

"and a male paradise gourami" - IMO not suited for small tanks, but some would disagree. Regardless, he is a terrible tankmate for the male betta, expect them to spontaneously rip each other apart soon.


If you thought it was acceptable, why did you say "this is not for critism on my stock"? You must already know this is a very irresponsible stocking.

To answer your original question, red claw crabs are a 'no'. They need marine aquarium salt in their water and a decent amount of land to come out on to.

ok, so...

female betta, fine with male unless requirements for breeding are met.

seminole killi, an active 2" fish that is only in the tank until the anchor worm i got it with clears up. but im sure you knew that...

oto cats, lots of fish do better in groups, but they will be fine solo or in pairs. find me someone who keeps hundreds then get back to me.

bamboo shrimp, grow to 3" not 5" and are filter feeders which are perfectly suited for a tank with a sponge filter. if kept in a tank with heavy filtration they could starve.

ghost shrimp, they are feeders...im not worried about disposing of some to my pike if need be.

so, all in all, these animals may not be perfectly suited for this tank i would not leave them in the tank together if anything was affecting the welfare of them besides being overstocked.

 

[three-fingers]

female betta, fine with male unless requirements for breeding are met.

Honestly, breeding bettas really isn't hard, raising all the fry is, but breeding them isn't. Most will breed in pretty much any water. If your bettas aren't breeding because conditions arent right, then that would suggest there is something pretty wrong with your water. However it's probably just stress from the paradise fish that's stopping the male from breeding.

seminole killi, an active 2" fish that is only in the tank until the anchor worm i got it with clears up. but im sure you knew that...

You should have said that, there was no indication of that whatsoever. In such a small tank a red claw crab could easily eat that size of fish (even though the crab wouldn't last long itself).

oto cats, lots of fish do better in groups, but they will be fine solo or in pairs. find me someone who keeps hundreds then get back to me.

I wasn't suggesting you keep them in hundreds, just thought that fact may help you understand why keeping pairs has such an effect. Having said that some do keep hundreds, in decent sized planted tanks for algae control.
Most people keep them in groups of 6-12, because that's how they fare best. In solos or pairs don't do fine at all, acting really unnaturally and not eating as they should. I've never read a source that recommends keeping them in solo's or pairs (and I never had luck with it myself) - and there's a reason for that.

bamboo shrimp, grow to 3" not 5" and are filter feeders which are perfectly suited for a tank with a sponge filter. if kept in a tank with heavy filtration they could starve.

Maybe yours, but that's only because there's no way yours are getting enough food unless you are moving them to a separate tank for feeding or have a large external filter that you change the filter floss in each day. As usually seems to happen with filter shrimp, yours will be slowly starving, getting slightly smaller with each shed. Seriously, a sponge-filtered 5gal is possibly the worst kind of thank for them after an unfiltered bowl. In the wild they live in very fast flowing rivers, and have evolved to be pretty much constantly feeding. 5 gallons is not a high enough volume of water to support them, if it was they would be producing so much waste themselves
I frequently see bamboo shrimp at 5", my 3 have grown from about 2" and the largest is probably just over 3" at the moment. My last bamboo shrimp was easily over 4".

ghost shrimp, they are feeders...im not worried about disposing of some to my pike if need be.

In that small a tank, the resulting ammonia spike from one of them dying could be devastating.

so, all in all, these animals may not be perfectly suited for this tank i would not leave them in the tank together if anything was affecting the welfare of them besides being overstocked.

But being overstocked is the issue that effects the welfare here, the tank is overstocked because it is not able to support the bamboo shrimp, or likely cope with the death with one of the ghost shrimp.
The major compatibility issues that will be affecting welfare are the male and female betta with the paradise fish - just go ask or read some posts over at the betta forum.

I seriously think this stocking will lead to a disaster, and while I personally don't mind much (it doesn't even effect me), I'd hate for it all to go wrong for you just because I never said anything.
And my advice is that it will all go wrong very soon if something isn't changed .
Sorry if I sound harsh, I just feel it's required .

 

[dizzied]

female betta, fine with male unless requirements for breeding are met.

Other way around. The male and female betta should not be in the same tank unless they're breeding.

seminole killi, an active 2" fish that is only in the tank until the anchor worm i got it with clears up. but im sure you knew that...

A temperate fish that gets to 4". Too big for the tank, and has different temperature requirements.

oto cats, lots of fish do better in groups, but they will be fine solo or in pairs. find me someone who keeps hundreds then get back to me.

Preferably should be kept in groups.

bamboo shrimp, grow to 3" not 5" and are filter feeders which are perfectly suited for a tank with a sponge filter. if kept in a tank with heavy filtration they could starve.

Males can get to 5", females probably 3" or 4". Sponge filters are absolutely horrible for Bamboo shrimp, because it doesn't create much water movement, and will trap the microorganisms that the Bamboo shrimp feeds on.

ghost shrimp, they are feeders...im not worried about disposing of some to my pike if need be.

For a 5g, they're fine, but 15 of them wouldn't be good for aesthetic purposes.

peppered cory

Should be in a school, which your tank will not have enough space for.

a male paradise gourami

Will fight with the betta.

fiddler crab

Brackish, amphibious, and spends the majority of it's time on land. Absolute no.

 

[andyourblueblood]

i forgot to add that the paradise gourami has been gone since the day of the original post, and that i have a small power head in the tank from a reptile waterfall. the tank is being upgraded TODAY! im going with an 11g acrylic that a friend is supplying me with. why shouldn't the male and female be in the same tank unless they breed?? from what i have read, you need a place for the male to lay eggs (something floating)and Indian almond leaf extract to entice breeding. more oto cats will be added as soon as i can get them, i have already gave away the killi and as i said the gourami and i replaced them with two more peppered corys. what would be an adequate way to ensure that the bamboo shrimp are eating?



p.s. the crab that started this all was a fidler, and my ferret freed himself from his cage and found his way onto my night stand and did bad things to sebastion... sad day.

 

[three-fingers]

Sounds great .

why shouldn't the male and female be in the same tank unless they breed?? from what i have read, you need a place for the male to lay eggs (something floating)and Indian almond leaf extract to entice breeding.

Oh, they will, I've seen them breed in pets@home water which was somehow something stupid like pH 8 . Like guppies, they will breed in almost any conditions, keeping the fry alive is the problem.
Indian Almond leave extract just lowers the pH and has antibacterial tannins in it, ideal conditions for bettas and mimics their natural environment, but like loads of our effectively domesticated aquarium fish, this really isn't needed.
The males don't need anything to make a bubble nest, they will just do it in the corner or side of the tank whenever they feel ready .

edit: Missed the question on feeding filter shrimp.

The tank I have mine in has loads of fry and snails that clean up leftovers, and an oversized internal filter, so I just put in a decent amount of powdered fish flakes for them to filter.

In a regular tank, without excess numbers of snails and without fish small enough to eat powdered flakes, you should target feed them with powdered flakes mixed with water in a pipette or similar. A strong filter current at parts is a must (a perch near the outlet will do), otherwise when they get hungry they will resort to trying to pick up food from the ground, which eventually destroys their fans and ability to feed.

 

[dizzied]

The reason you shouldn't put the bettas together is because if they're not breeding, they'll be fighting.

 

[andyourblueblood]

The reason you shouldn't put the bettas together is because if they're not breeding, they'll be fighting.

they have been together for a while and they dont fight....

 

[three-fingers]

Yeah...was going to say, they don't all fight, just some males are particularly feisty.

But they will breed, and then the male will fight with everything.