Why Is The Ph So High In My Tank?

[Steve H.]

Hi again. I have another question.
My tank recently completed cycling, and I decided to take my water to the lfs to have them test it. I really don't know why I did because I've been testing with the API testmaster kit, and feel I can trust my results.
So, of course I was completely shocked when they told me my ammonia levels were off the charts. What? when I questioned how he knew because I know even with test strips the ammonia test takes a few minutes he told me because my Ph level was so high.
I just said oh...and didn't say anything, and just chalked it up to that fact he didn't know what he was talking about. For the last 3 days I've been testing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and <10 nitrate.
So, of course I ran home and tested again. Zeros....ok all is good, but why does this guy equate my Ph with ammonia?
So begins my investigation. The Ph in my tank has always been on the high side at 8.4.
After reading a bunch of topics here in this forum someone always says "what's the Ph out of the tap?"
So I tested that...7.4 out of the tap. Hmmm. One point difference between tap and tank?
I also had a bucket with water prepared for my water change tomorrow, and decided to test that. I got 8.0...ok getting closer. The dechlorinator causes a .6 jump.
Tank tested at 8.4.

What could be causing the .4 rise of the tank water?

Currently everything in the tank is artificial.
For 3 weeks I've been performing 50% water changes everyday, and lightly vacuumed the gravel while doing these. Just curious about this. It doesn't seem to be effecting my fish. They seem happy after surviving a fish-in cycle.

 

[thereverendturtle]

High pH doesn't cause high ammonia. It does make it more toxic if you do have ammonia. If that were the case the oceans and the hard water lakes and streams around the world would all have high ammonia levels. Is there the chance that there's excess CO2 in your tap supply? CO2 lowers pH, so as you fill the bucket and age the water, CO2 would be driven off and the pH would increase.

 

[DevotedToDiscus]

I agree with the turtle....... don't test your tap water as it comes out of the tap. Fill a glass and let it stand for 24 hours, then test it. This will allow it time to release any trapped gasses and give you acurate results.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

High pH is a sign of high mineral content, normally. (BTW, the guy at the LFS didn't know what he was talking about. )


I wouldn't worry about the pH too much, but you should pick fish that like such high pH conditions.

 

[Rummynose]

Unlike your tanks my tanks are both on the acidic side. when I started this hobby my tap water measured around 7, and not quite a year later it is at 6.5. Not sure why this happened!? With the driftwood and the water being soft my ph is dropping in my tanks to 5.5 in the 10 gal tank, and 6.2 in my 30 gal.

All my fish are doing fine, and I would never have known that my ph had dropped so low had I not have had a very unfortunate experience when I added 5 cute red crystal shrimp to my tank. They are extremely sensitive, so even though I acclimatised them slowly they did not take well to my tank, and died.

Like it was suggested by others already, try to go with species that naturally love your ph level. On the other hand fish also can get used to different levels as long as they aren't the most sensitive and water-parameter-specific species. My Betta and Kuhli Loaches are happy in their tank sitting at 5.5, and I do at least 50% water changes every week.

 

[Steve H.]

High pH doesn't cause high ammonia. It does make it more toxic if you do have ammonia. If that were the case the oceans and the hard water lakes and streams around the world would all have high ammonia levels. Is there the chance that there's excess CO2 in your tap supply? CO2 lowers pH, so as you fill the bucket and age the water, CO2 would be driven off and the pH would increase.

Ahhh....so it is reasonable to conclude the water I tested out of my prepared change water was higher not because of the dechlorinator, but because it had been sitting for 12 hours and more CO2 had been driven off. And, so by the time it gets in the tank possibly all the CO2 has been driven off thus giving me a true Ph reading of my local water.
Interesting. Thanks!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Exactly...

 

[Steve H.]

High pH is a sign of high mineral content, normally. (BTW, the guy at the LFS didn't know what he was talking about. )


I wouldn't worry about the pH too much, but you should pick fish that like such high pH conditions.

Thanks eagle! Makes sense about the high mineral content because of the well water system I have here.
Another person at a lps told me not to worry about the Ph because that's what it is in our area, and pointed to all the tanks and said all these fish are living in that Ph and doing fine.
Just shocked about the last one because it was a fish shop?
And when the kid told me it would be "instant death" if I added fish to that water. I just didn't have the heart to tell him I had fish in that water for weeks.

 

[Steve H.]

I agree with the turtle....... don't test your tap water as it comes out of the tap. Fill a glass and let it stand for 24 hours, then test it. This will allow it time to release any trapped gasses and give you acurate results.

Thank you. Makes sense to me now. I've got my test glass ready. Even though it has been stated not to worry about the Ph too much if I stick with fish that can tolerate the elevated level....my curiosity is getting the better of me, and I have this urge to test it.

 

[Steve H.]

Unlike your tanks my tanks are both on the acidic side. when I started this hobby my tap water measured around 7, and not quite a year later it is at 6.5. Not sure why this happened!? With the driftwood and the water being soft my ph is dropping in my tanks to 5.5 in the 10 gal tank, and 6.2 in my 30 gal.

All my fish are doing fine, and I would never have known that my ph had dropped so low had I not have had a very unfortunate experience when I added 5 cute red crystal shrimp to my tank. They are extremely sensitive, so even though I acclimatised them slowly they did not take well to my tank, and died.

Like it was suggested by others already, try to go with species that naturally love your ph level. On the other hand fish also can get used to different levels as long as they aren't the most sensitive and water-parameter-specific species. My Betta and Kuhli Loaches are happy in their tank sitting at 5.5, and I do at least 50% water changes every week.

Sorry to hear about your shrimp, but thank you for passing along your insight so that I can avoid a similar situation.
I'm only 2 months into this hobby, but I really enjoy it. I think I may enjoy the science side of the hobby even more than the actual fish keeping. Strange, right?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You don't have to just let the water sit overnight. You can greatly shorten the process by dropping an airstone in the container of water which will outgas the co2 inside 2 hours or less.

 

[Steve H.]

You don't have to just let the water sit overnight. You can greatly shorten the process by dropping an airstone in the container of water which will outgas the co2 inside 2 hours or less.

Cool!
And yet another reason that the Ph in the tank tested higher than my change water bucket.
The airstone in the tank(only 10gL) is more than likely driving any remaining CO2, and giving the true Ph of my local water....8.4

I think you all have helped me piece it together, and I can reasonably conclude my local water is in fact 8.4.

But, you better believe I going to go grab that airstone and test it!

 

[Aqua Tom]

The guy in your LFS was probably looking to sell you a cycle in a bottle product, either that or he had no clue wahat he was talking about.

Dont stress to much about your PH level. It realy doesnt effect anything to any extreme & is very hard to regulate. Just relax in the knowledge that you have a high Ph & stock acordingly.

BTW my Ph is 8.2 & I have no problems at all caused by it.


Tom

 

[Steve H.]

The guy in your LFS was probably looking to sell you a cycle in a bottle product, either that or he had no clue wahat he was talking about.

Dont stress to much about your PH level. It realy doesnt effect anything to any extreme & is very hard to regulate. Just relax in the knowledge that you have a high Ph & stock acordingly.

BTW my Ph is 8.2 & I have no problems at all caused by it.


Tom

Thanks Tom! Nice bike!
I agree. I think that's what he was up too because he immediately brought me to the isle with all those products, and pointed out a few ammonia and Ph control products. I may be new to the hobby, but come on...
I know enough to come here and ask. Knowing I will get a large response of: experience, knowledge, opinion, observations, advice, and support.

Thanks again all!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

He was probably trying to sell you ph Down! These type products in my opinion are "instant death", because they will change the pH VERY rapidly and that is problematic for fish and it is only temporary, so the pH will start to rise again rapidly. Then you add more pH down, and the yo-yo begins. That's a HUGE issue!