Why Bother With Fishless Cycle ?

[Axleuk]

I was all prepared to do a fishless cycle when i set up my tank. I knew it was the right thing to do, however the thought of having to wait potentially weeks was frustrating to say the least I WANT MY DAMN FISHIES NOW!!!

However, i saw Bactinette in the LFS and they claim that you can add fish to your water right away.

Hmmmm... thats some claim. £5 per 100 litre dose and i can add my fishies right away, sounds ideal. So....lets put it to the test.

I added Ammonia to my tank as per the fishless cycle guidlines, Ammonia reading was showing its presense so i added the Bactinette to my filter and 24 hrs later the Ammonia test was showing a reading of 0. Wow !! this stuff actually works....Water temp 26º tank nice and clear and new fishies are having a wail of a time.

So why bother with a long winded fishless cycles, when you can get hold of these Live Bacteria, Bactinettes and have your tank up and running in no time at all?

People may say that they cannot get hold of Bactinettes which is a European product only i believe, but there is a US alternative out there thats has equally as good results, and with the internet being very resourceful, people should never have problems getting hold of this stuff.

Highly recommended.

 

[JenCliBee]

the only problem doing it this way is that even tho u may have some bacteria from the stuff u used it mite not be established enough 2 cope with the amount of waste fish & food produced so yes u mite have the ammonia drop in 24 hrs but with the extra crap from the fish and food u mite get ammonia and nitrite spikes which is not good for ur fish


jen

 

[shelaghfishface]

simple,
do you want to see the fish suffer burns,suffocation, and the list goes on. i have had problems with a new set up for the last 2 days and im feeling really bad about it,constant water changes and testing, i spose its a matter of personal opinion/prefrence, but i would never intentionally put fish thru a cycle, but then its your call
anyway the weeks you have to wait can be put to excellent use,researching your fish,planning your tank,stocking up on meds/food/toys... and the best bit... buying your next tank

just my opinion
shelagh xxxxx

 

[celaeno]

these bacteria in a bottle/pouch that you speak of usually work only if they've been refrigerated and handled properly.

this is why, in my experience, bio-spira (the main US bacteria additive) only works well during the winter months and can't be relied on during other seasons. a fishless cycle, on the other hand, can be done anytime.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Bactinettes is always a pain to get hold of, very few retailers sell it due to increased cost of storing it, plus the fact that most are happy enough to sell you fish whenever/sell you some Cycle or similar. Plus the effectiveness very much depends on specific storage conditions- if it's got too hot, or been stored for too long, or whatever, it isn't going to work and you've no way of knowing until after fish have been added. Which is why you can't exactly post it.

Plus it's still quite expensive- a bottle of ammonia costs less than half of the price of Bactinettes and will literally last you a lifetime.

 

[Axleuk]

Well, i was planning a fishless cycle before i spotted the Bactinette on the LFS. They were refridgerated at the counter. The guys in the store seemed to be genuine to the point that they refused to sell me a fish that prefered a PH level of 7.8 until i had double checked my readings and was certain my levels would be adequate. I was so impressed by this that i felt i could trust these guys and i know the variety of views people have with store staff.

I only have 4 dwarf gouramis in the tank and do not plan on adding anything else until i can be certain everything is running well.

 

[JenCliBee]

I only have 4 dwarf gouramis in the tank and do not plan on adding anything else until i can be certain everything is running well.

lol uve also probably picked the worse fish for a new maybe unestablished tank there not very hardy IME and need quite a well established tank

 

[backtotropical]

You don't mention nitrite Axleuk. Was nitrite at 0 after 24hrs too?

I wouldn't consider your tank to be cycled until ammonia and nitrite are consistently both 0 after 12 hrs, not 24.

Bactinettes do work, but not consistently, as said above, due to varied storage conditions. Their equivalent in the US is Bio-Spira which has the same problems.

You have obviously been lucky and got bactinettes which have been properly stored, but many people have a different experience.

If you can consistently add 5ppm of ammonia each day, and have ammonia and nitrite readings of 0, 12 hours later, for 7 days in a row, then yes, you've cracked it. However, i doubt it somehow.

The reason i doubt it is because new bacteria colonies tend to have 'blips', where maybe they won't process all the ammonia one day, then they may not process all the nitrite the next day. This isn't uncommon and is why it is usually recommended that once you are 'cycled', you should continue to add ammonia and monitor readings for at least another week. Established bacteria colonies aren't nearly so prone to this behaviour.

Anyway i think the main point here is that you haven't mentioned nitrite and probably for a good reason. To my knowledge, bactinettes contain Nitrosomonas, which is the correct nitrifier for ammonia, but don't contain bio-spira which is the correct nitrifier for nitrite.

I believe bactinettes may contain Nitrobacter which is a nitrifier, but Timothy Hovanec's research concluded that it is not the main nitrifier present in home aquaria. This is because Nitrobacter thrive at much higher nitrite concentrations than are found in the home aquaria (Nitrobacter are found to be the main nitrite nitrifier in waste treatment plants where the concentrations are much higher), and in home aquaria environment, will usually die off to make way for the Nitrospira.

In essence, I believe that Bactinettes will process the ammonia correctly, and might process the nitrite correctly for a short period, or maybe not at all. If they do process nitrite correctly at first, it is my assumption that they will quite quickly die off due to the low nitrite concentrations, and the Nitrospira will not have had time to culture properly, leaving you with a big nitrite spike and floundering fish (excuse the pun).

Bactinettes can work as i said above, and are a welcome addition to any cycle, but i wouldn't consider it an alternative.

I am of course willing for you to prove me wrong if you can, but that is certainly my understanding.

All that said, and i haven't even mentioned the most effective way to bypass the fishless cycle, Mature filter media, but that is a different discussion altogether.

Cheers

BTT

 

[Axleuk]

Well i hope the fish are ok, they seem very playful at present and i will keep a close eye on them. Should they show any signs of stress or illness i will act accordingly.

 

[shelaghfishface]

did he sell you fish and these bacteria stuff on the same day??

 

[backtotropical]

Well i hope the fish are ok, they seem very playful at present and i will keep a close eye on them. Should they show any signs of stress or illness i will act accordingly.

The whole point of a fishless cycle is not having to wait until the fish are suffering to take the necessary action, because with a fishless cycle, the action has already been taken to prevent it.

Do you have the necessary test kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH?

 

[Axleuk]

In response to BTT:

I really appreciate the time you took to respond to my post, it is this type of response that educates others and in some cases points out the errors of others.

There was no reason for me not mentioning the Nitrate/Nitrate levels as i was typing away without any real structure to be fair, however for clarity i will test all my levels and post them here along with the process i have used so far in cycling, i have nothing to hide and if i have made mistakes, i would rather they were pointed out to me now in hope that others may learn.

I have not relied completely on Bactinette, i have also used some water from an establish tank albeit only a couple of litres and had been running the tank fishless for a few days.

Will post results shortly.

Well i hope the fish are ok, they seem very playful at present and i will keep a close eye on them. Should they show any signs of stress or illness i will act accordingly.

The whole point of a fishless cycle is not having to wait until the fish are suffering to take the necessary action, because with a fishless cycle, the action has already been taken to prevent it.

Do you have the necessary test kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH?

Yes, i use API Freshwater Master Kit

 

[JenCliBee]

ising water from a established tank is basically next 2 piontless the bacteria attaches it self 2 media not stays in the water( a little mybe but not enough 2 even come close 2 mattering.

as 2 making the mistakes(and this is not getting at u) on previous posts u said uve read alot and learnt alot from this forum but still went against all these ppl's experienced and basically are doing a fish in cycle


jen

 

[backtotropical]

I look forward to seeing those results. I don't mean to infer that you are hiding results from us or being dishonest. If that is the way my post read, i apoligise.

As Jen says, water from an established tank will contain virtually no beneficial bacteria at all. The bacteria we need are not free-swimming, and in fact attach themselves to surfaces. There will be bacteria all over your aquarium glass, ornaments, substrate plants etc etc.

That said, these bacteria only make up around 1% of the bacteria you need. The other 99% are housed in your filter. This is because they thrive in an oxygen rich environment, and the constant flow of water through the filter provides ideal conditions for them.

If you can get a piece of filter media from the tank you got the water from, that would help a lot.

You say you were running the tank fishless for a few days. Were you adding ammonia? If not, this basically achieves nothing at all. You are not alone in having done this. Many LFS's recommend this as a way to cycle the tank, but it really just shows their incompetence and lack of knowledge. For the cycle to start, there must be an ammonia source. No ammonia = No cycle.

Also, replying to your post is no problem at all. I like to help where i can.

BTT

 

[stiffler69]

I have just setup a new tank, however i used 30% water from a mature tank i then took a filter out of the mature tank as i have a air powered bio sponge filter and a just a small sponge filter running along side it, i took out the bio filter and replaced it with a new one leaving the ordinary spong filter running in my main tank.

Before i put the bio filter into the new tank i squeezed it onto the new bio sponge filter transfering some of the bacteria to the new one poped it into the already up and running tank, and placed the old filter into my new tank, just done tests on both and they are showing no nitrates or ammonia.

This is the only method i would recommend to anyone setting up a new tank and the bottled bacteria are only recommended to speed things up i do not know of any on the shelf what say you can add fish immediately i have only ever heard of ones what shave a week or two off normal cycleing time.