White Spot Questions

[Adsy86]

Hi Guys

I have had a 90l tank setup for about 4 months now, and use sand as a base

I was away this weekend and returned to see my clown loach and angel fish had white spots!

Headed to pet shop and got some white spot treatment and was recommended to add aquarium salt too ( have never used this before)

Done a 25% water change and Added as per insutructions yesterday and that night the tank looked crystal clear!

I have returned home tonight and my clown loach didnt make it and there is a slight cloudyness of the water - is this part of the process?

I have 1x angel, 3x blue neon, 1x bumblebee fish, 1, mid sized long tail bristlenose, 6x guppies, 4x black spotted yellow tetra. ( and had 1 departed clown loach )

PH is arround 7.6, i dont have a nitrate or amonia testing kit

Any recommendations or wise words?

Thanks

Adam

 

[Ch4rlie]

Hi, I would suggest you do get a water testing kit for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

This is first course of action to take when fish / stocking take a turn for the worse, so you know exactly what's going on in tank water.

Often having any readings for ammonia or nitrite or high readings of nitrate is usually the cause of disease in fish/stocking as well as other possible factors such as stress, wrong water temp etc etc

Did you cycle the tank before adding the stocking in tank, if so, how did you know if tank is cycled if you don't have testing kit?
Just curious.

BTW angels may make a snack out of neon tetras when it grows larger.

And lastly, clown loaches are not suitable for your tank size, they better off in tanks with at least 6 feet in length and in groups of 6+.

 

[Adsy86]

Thanks for the quick reply Ch4rlie
I'll see if i can pick up a test kit for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tomorrow - is this an all in one kit or 3 separate things?
 
When i first setup the tank (which i presume is what you mean by cycled?) i filled it up and let the pump run with all the bits in it for a week. I took a test sample to the pet shop and they said it was ready for fish so bought the guppies, tetras 2 apple snails then gave it another week. They was happy so added the Angel, loach and the bristlenose and bumblebee fish. All was good so bought the 4 black spotted yellow tetra's  and it hasn’t been much of a problem up until now. I do a 20-25% water change every 7-10 days (Obviously adding the declinator tap water condition to the new water)
 
If the clown loach is not a good fish for my size, can you recommend something else to keep down the snail population? We bought 2 apple snails but have had 2 different kinds of mystery snails appearing lol!
 
Cheers
Adam

 

[Ch4rlie]

Cycling a tank is ensuring you have sufficient bacteria to deal with ammonia and nitrite. Fish produce ammonia as well as decaying plants and rotting leftover foods.

So to maintain healthy stocking you need bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite and bacteria to convert nitrite to nitrates and nitrate is controlled by weekly water changes. That's a very basic rundown. More information on this link -

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

As for freshwater test kits, you can purchase API FW Master Test Kit, this contains tests for PH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. It's not bad value for money and is a popular choice amongst many keepers. Usually can be bought from your LFS or online.

 

[Byron]

I second everything Ch4rlie has posted.
 
I'm going to add a couple basic things that will help you in future.  From your posts you are fairly new to keeping fish, and there are some basics to keep in mind.
 
First, diseases like ich are most often the result of stress to fish.  The factors that cause this or that disease may be present but healthy fish can often fight these off.  But a stressed fish is severely weakened, especially the immune system.  Many factors can cause stress to fish.  Exposing fish to cycling ammonia and/or nitrite, high nitrates, inappropriate water parameters (temperature, hardness and pH), non-compatible fish, overstocking, too few fish for species that are shoaling and need several of their species, inappropriate environment (the decor or aquascape), etc.  This is why Ch4rlie mentioned always testing water at a sign of trouble.
 
Second thing I'd like to mention is research before acquiring any fish.  Never buy a fish that you have not researched to find out its mature size (and thus how large of an aquarium it needs), if it is shoaling and thus needs to be in a group of five or six or more, if it has special requirements with respect to water parameters (not all fish will live healthily in the same water conditions), is compatible with your other fish, etc.  And never acquire a fish just to deal with another "problem" like snails, algae, etc.  This is almost always going to cause more trouble, as it has here.
 
I hope this is of some help, and good luck.
 
Byron.

 

[Adsy86]

Hi Guys
 
So i bought a testing kit today (API Test Strips) - below are my results
 
GH 180 ppm
KH 40 ppm
PH 6.9
N02 0 ppm
N03 160 ppm
Amonia 0.05 ppm
 
What sort of readings should i be after here? I must note also the tank is clear today
 
Thanks
Adam

 

[Adsy86]

So i also just tested my tap water and got the below results
 
GH 120
KH 80
PH 7
NO2 0
NO3 0
Amonia 0.00
 
So going on what ive researched looks like i can bring down the GH and NO3 by changing my 25% water changes from 7-10 days to 5-7 days. Lifting up all rocks and sucking up anything under them.
 
And recommended safe levels would be the below?
GH - 60-150    
KH - 40-120    
PH - 6.8-7.8    
NO2 - 0.0-0.5    
NO3 - 0-80    
Amonia - 0.00-0.05

 

[Ch4rlie]

Ah, perhaps I should have mentioned, the strip dip kind of tests are not really the best to use, they can be inaccurate and unreliable to use unfortunately.
 
I would have to say the liquid based kind of test kit are far more reliable.
 
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However, your test result with the strip kit may serve as a very rough guide, the kind of readings you should ideally have is Ammonia 0 , Nitrite 0 and Nitrate around 40ppm or less.
 
 

 

[Byron]

Agree.  As for the numbers, GH and KH will usually remain close to the tap water, unless you are targeting the hardness.  Example, if you had a calcareous substrate or rocks (calcareous meaning like limestone, dolomite, crushed coral, shells, aragonite, marble) these would slowly dissolve mineral into the water, making it harder.  The GH of your tank water is higher than the tap here, which may be nothing but the test strips not being precise, or you might have calcareous substances.  The GH does impact fish, some more than others, and it is generally advisable to maintain fish suited to your water.  This makes water changes simpler, as you don't have to be adjusting the GH, and you will have more stability if you don't start messing with water adjustments, which is not always straight-forward.  A GH somewhere between 120 to 180 (= 7 to 10 DGH) is somewhere in the soft/moderately hard range which is fine for many fishes.  Can't say much more without knowing your fish species.
 
The pH tends to be connected to the GH and KH, and here again messing with it to obtain some desired specific pH is not advisable.  It is not extreme, and again you should have no issues with most fishes.
 
The real serious number is the nitrate at 160 ppm.  If the tap water test of zero nitrate is correct, then the nitrates is solely occurring from the aquarium.  This is the result of one (or more) of several factors: overloaded fish numbers, over-feeding, insufficient water changes, inadequate filtration (can include not cleaning it).  A 90 litre tank (around a 20g) is not very large, and without knowing the fish you now have, I am going to suggest you may be overstocked.  Mention has already been made of the clown loach being too large (please don't replace it), and an angelfish will have issues in this tank when it matures.  Leaving the fish load until we know more, the water changes should be increased in volume to half the tank, and no less than once each week.  If the tank is overstocked, this has to be increased until you can reduce the fish load and then be down to a once weekly 50% water change.  Nitrates must be kept low, no higher than 20 ppm, and preferably closer to 10 ppm.  This is not difficult when the tank is biologically balanced and stable; live plants help too.
 
Byron.
 
P.S.  Nitrate is a topic on which there will likely be differing viewpoints as to the level that is safe.  While 40 ppm used to be touted as OK, this is no longer the thinking.  More recent scientific studies on the effect of nitrates on freshwater fish are conclusively showing that nitrates anywhere near this level that are maintained long-term do slowly affect the physiology of fish.  Dr. Neale Monks is continually advocating nitrates be kept below 20 ppm, and this is very sound advice.  Many other writers are now saying the same thing.  When one considers that nitrates in the natural waters of all the fish we maintain in aquaria are zero or less than 1 ppm, it is not surprising that fish exposed to levels twenty times this will likely have issues over time.

 

[Adsy86]

Hi guys
 
Thanks for all the advice, got a API Master kit on order - should be here this week
 
I gave the tank a good clean out on saturday and just tested the water today, below are the strip test results - all fish are much happy and looks healthier
 
GH 120
KH 60
PH 7.2
NO2 0
NO3 40
Amonia 0.02