White spot? Gill flukes?

[Dephea]

I don't think I ever felt more lost and confused so here we are.

Water:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrites 0ppm
pH 7.5

Stock:
5 x Gourami
3 x Clown Loach (yes, I know how big they grow and I made arrangements for them when they grow big, hopefully I won't get disheartened by this hobby and will just get a big tank for my living room)
2x Ram (one blue and one german because apparently they do not wish to stay alive in my tank)
2x rummy nose tetra (also apparently not too happy with my tank so giving up on those little ones now)
Bunch of Shrimps and 7 little snails for the green algae dots on glass

150L, usual tempreature 25C, atm moved to 29C. Fluval U4 running with extra aeration and air stone on the other end of the tank. Live plants, nothing bought recently

I am currently treating my tank for white spot. Interpet Anti White spot in action, Started nearly 2 weeks ago, but whenever I see spots disappearing - BOOM - new ones are showing up. Additionally my ram is not okay and he makes me worry that maybe there is something else? like... the bottom of his gills are looking like a very square jaw and his little mouth doesn't open as wide as the other ram's. He is also rubbing himself on rocks and plants, but no white spots visible. The blue ram just started flashing too but no white spots yet

I am due to change some water today and before I do I wanted to clarify some things so I don't accidentally kill my fish

QUESTIONS:

1. When I treat with malachite green can I still vacuum the gravel? If so - do I re-dose every time I do? Interpet's instruction says to re-dose on 4th day so I am unsure if I should clean daily or not. If I clean the gravel daily I will be diluting it all the time as I will have to replace the removed water

2. Can I use Interpet's anti white spot meds AND aquarium salt (API) + increase temp to 30C?

3. I have Pimafix and Melafix - I know about gouramis, half doses and all that jazz. Can I add it as well since it's herbal and very low concentration? I don't want to whack 37529 things into the tank but I feel lost as there are all the different options

4. Is it possible that the ram has gill flukes? Can I treat it at the same time as the white spot? If so what's the best thing to use? I can't fish up my shrimps so it must be something safe for them. I can easily move the snails if needed



To make things worse on 19th of May I am moving my tank to my new home. This will stress the fish more but I cannot postpone it. I am prepared for it so should go smoothly but I am unsure if then diluting the water won't make things bad again. I won't be able to take the entire 150L of water with me, 75-80L, maaaaybe 90L is probably the maximum


I have attached some photos of the white spots, 2 loaches have 1 spot each too but catching them with my phone is nearly impossible. The Duke (orange gourami) seems to have the most white spots, I attached two photos of him. Didn't notice any rubbing on guramis, one loach did flash 2 or 3 times but nothing major. The only one that does flash more is the ram

 

[Colin_T]

I don't know if it is white spot on the dwarf gourami. A couple of the spots look red and appear to be coming out from under the skin. However, that could be the picture.

Blue rams and German rams are exactly the same fish except German rams are bred in Germany and normal blue rams come from Asia.

No you can't use chemicals and heat at the same time because chemicals, salt and heat all reduce the oxygen levels in the water and you can suffocate the fish. Labyrinth fishes like gouramis & Bettas can survive the low oxygen levels but the other fish won't. In addition to this, chemicals, salt and heat stress the fish. Having a combination of these can kill fish from stress as ell as low oxygen levels.
Either use heat or chemicals but not both.

If you use heat or chemicals, do a 75-90% water change and complete gravel clean before treating or raising the temperature. this dilutes the number of parasites in the tank and means there are fewer to infect the fish. Then add the chemicals or raise the temperature. Do another water change a week later when you normally do.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Don't use Pimafix or Melafix because they won't do anything to help this problem.

No idea if the ram has gill flukes, What does its breathing look like?
Post a video of it.

Malachite Green can kill shrimp and is carcinogenic (causes cancer), so avoid getting it on your skin and don't inhale or ingest it. Wash your hands with warm soapy water after handling any chemicals/ medications or working in the tank.

 

[Dephea]

A couple of the spots look red and appear to be coming out from under the skin. However, that could be the picture.

I noticed that but the ones that are like 'under the skin' are actually very similar to the rest of his body, just more visible in bright light. There are 4 of them, all on the bit where the body ends and the tail fin starts. I asked the shop owner I bought him from and he showed me other gouramis having those so I didn't really pay attention to them. I have this gourami for roughly 3 months now, those spots did not move nor change and it's only the proper white spots that were appearing. I will try to take more photos if I can

Blue rams and German rams are exactly the same fish except German rams are bred in Germany and normal blue rams come from Asia.

Good to know. In my local shop they are labelled 'Blue electric ram' and 'german ram' so I kind of go with it. I am still learning all the fish names in English but tbf I don't even know what's the Polish name for rams

If you use heat or chemicals, do a 75-90% water change and complete gravel clean before treating or raising the temperature. this dilutes the number of parasites in the tank and means there are fewer to infect the fish. Then add the chemicals or raise the temperature. Do another water change a week later when you normally do.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

I treat the water in the bucket before it gets into the tank so that's not a problem. If I go with heat, which seems to be better in terms of adding stuff to the tank would I need to add the salt as well? And can I then re-add carbon to my filter? I'm pretty sure carbon can't affect the salt but I am tempted to add it due to previous meds used. Even if I replace the water there will still be traces I guess?

No idea if the ram has gill flukes, What does its breathing look like?
Post a video of it.

I will try to record him tonight or tomorrow after I feed them, will be easier for me to get him out of hiding in all the plants

Malachite Green can kill shrimp and is carcinogenic (causes cancer), so avoid getting it on your skin and don't inhale or ingest it. Wash your hands with warm soapy water after handling any chemicals/ medications or working in the tank.

Woah that's a great thing to know! I had no idea, I do always wash my hands before and after I deal with the tank but I certainly have to be more carful with it

Thank you for all the answers so far, i will try to get back to you with the video of the ram and photos of The Duke

 

[Colin_T]

Salt does not kill white spot so it's not needed in the tank.

You can have carbon in a filter with salt or heat. Carbon will not remove salt.

 

[Dephea]

Salt does not kill white spot so it's not needed in the tank.

Why is it so widely recommended then? I think this is where my confusion is coming from, lots and lots of places say salt + heat is the best. I do want to avoid salt if I can because of the clown loaches but then there are also paces saying it won't affect them and is needed to treat ich...

I will go with your advice and do heat only for now, I added another air stone as well just in case

 

[Colin_T]

White spot is a protozoan parasite. Salt kills lots of protozoan parasites (Costia, Chilodonella, Trichodina) that affect fish, but it doesn't affect velvet (Oodinium/ Amyloodinium) or white spot (Ichthyophthirius).

People think protozoa and say salt treats protozoan infections, so people use it for white spot. But in reality, the white spot and velvet parasites don't care about salt and actually occur in fresh, brackish (partly salty) and sea water. When you have organisms that live in fresh, brackish and salt water, adding salt to an aquarium is not going to affect that parasite.

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Salt can be used to help reduce the chance of infection after the white spot parasites fall off the fish, but clean water, clean gravel and a clean filter will also help prevent infections in the areas where the parasites were attached.

 

[Dephea]

Thank you so much for explaining this. I think the overwhelming amount of people screaming 'salt and heat' is what really confused me. I will stick to cleaning the tank and the 30Celsius temp for now and hopefully in a few weeks time I will have a spot free tank. No fish died so far and today I noticed one of the clown loaches doesn't have his spot anymore so potentially I'm not messing it all up just yet.