Which Stock For A Rtbs

[Loopza]

My 11 y/o son wanted to start keeping fish, so for his 12th birthday I've bought him a 70L Juawel tank with built in filter/pump/heater and hood with light.

I got gravel, 3 live plants three flat stones and a couple of safe "toys". Its been set up since Sunday evening ( 2 days ago) and is looking clear and on Saturday I plan to buy him his first fish.

He is VERY keen to get a Red Tailed Black Shark- The reason he wanted to start this hobby was when he saw one.

How should he stock the tank? i.e. what else can live happily with the RTBS and in what order should he add the fish and over what time scale.

Thanks very much for any help!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

before you put any fish into the tank I'd advise you to read this, it's about fishless cycling which is a safe way to set up a tank so it's ready for fish and you don't hurt any animals in the process.

 

[Loopza]

before you put any fish into the tank I'd advise you to read this, it's about fishless cycling which is a safe way to set up a tank so it's ready for fish and you don't hurt any animals in the process.

That is taken word for word from a book I bought on-line called Tropical fish Secrets!!

naughty!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

before you put any fish into the tank I'd advise you to read this, it's about fishless cycling which is a safe way to set up a tank so it's ready for fish and you don't hurt any animals in the process.

That is taken word for word from a book I bought on-line called Tropical fish Secrets!!

naughty!

never heard of that book, just a co-incidence, it's all my own work

 

[Loopza]

never heard of that book, just a co-incidence, it's all my own work

Oh ,..well OK then.

So anyway now I have to tell the wee lad that he wont have any fish in his tank by his birthday

The tank is clear and two days after starting the filter I added live plants and its still clear If I start tonight with some amonnia should I be able to add fish by next wednesday ?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

sorry, but IMO that's the best way to do it. I can understand how he'd be dissapointed, but if you just put them in and then his birthday fish died a week later I'm sure that'd be worse.

there's no guarantee's as to how long it can take to cycle a tank, however i strongly doubt if it'll be done in a week Ian's tank took 6 weeks to cycle.

However there's a great way of kick starting your cycle which should mean you can get fish much sooner. If you know anyone with a fish tank get some mature media from they're filter and add it to yours, start adding ammonia and testing the water you should find it cycles really fast. If you don't know anyone with a mature healthy tank have a look on this post it's a list of members willing to donate media and where they live. find someone near you and pm them and arrange to get some. didn't want to post this bit first as you should get your head around the idea of cycling and how it works before you try and 'cheat' a bit

 

[Loopza]

sorry, but IMO that's the best way to do it. I can understand how he'd be dissapointed, but if you just put them in and then his birthday fish died a week later I'm sure that'd be worse.

there's no guarantee's as to how long it can take to cycle a tank, however i strongly doubt if it'll be done in a week Ian's tank took 6 weeks to cycle.

However there's a great way of kick starting your cycle which should mean you can get fish much sooner. If you know anyone with a fish tank get some mature media from they're filter and add it to yours, start adding ammonia and testing the water you should find it cycles really fast. If you don't know anyone with a mature healthy tank have a look on this post it's a list of members willing to donate media and where they live. find someone near you and pm them and arrange to get some. didn't want to post this bit first as you should get your head around the idea of cycling and how it works before you try and 'cheat' a bit

OK thanks I will obviously do the fishless cycle but the guy in the shop never mentioned doing this at all so Im not sure if I should buy the fish from there now?

I need to buy the testing kit as well,.... What have I got into!!!

I had a look at that thread but no one available for donations in Glasgow as far as I can see.

PS what is media anyway?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

sorry, but IMO that's the best way to do it. I can understand how he'd be dissapointed, but if you just put them in and then his birthday fish died a week later I'm sure that'd be worse.

there's no guarantee's as to how long it can take to cycle a tank, however i strongly doubt if it'll be done in a week Ian's tank took 6 weeks to cycle.

However there's a great way of kick starting your cycle which should mean you can get fish much sooner. If you know anyone with a fish tank get some mature media from they're filter and add it to yours, start adding ammonia and testing the water you should find it cycles really fast. If you don't know anyone with a mature healthy tank have a look on this post it's a list of members willing to donate media and where they live. find someone near you and pm them and arrange to get some. didn't want to post this bit first as you should get your head around the idea of cycling and how it works before you try and 'cheat' a bit

OK thanks I will obviously do the fishless cycle but the guy in the shop never mentioned doing this at all so Im not sure if I should buy the fish from there now?

I need to buy the testing kit as well,.... What have I got into!!!

I had a look at that thread but no one available for donations in Glasgow as far as I can see.

PS what is media anyway?

fishless cycling is a fairly new thing, a lot of fish stores are fairly old school so they don't tell people about these sorts of things. I wish they would to be honest.

ha ha yeah it's not the cheapest of hobbies and there's always something new! sure you and your son will love it though

media is the stuff inside your filter, it can be sponges, floss, ceramic rings, balls, all sorts really. it's what the bacteria colony that process's fishy waste lives on. if you get some from someone else (and treat it correctly) then you'll get a ready made colony, you use this to 'seed' your own media and build up your own colony in your filter.

now I know for a fact there's a fair few members in scotland, i'll bet there's someone who can help who's just not added themselves to the list. Put up a post asking for people in Scotland/Glasgow in the title and I'll bet you get someone who'll help

 

[Loopza]

Thanks (again Miss W)

I just phoned the shop where I bought my tank and asked if they sold amonnia in order for me to do a fishless cycle.

He went bizerke!

Shouting " dont put household amonnia near your tank" he said either buy a bacteria pack or put half a dozen neons in first and that'll do it!!

I told him that most people seem to be telling me that a fishless cycle is what I should do and he said he had 30 years of experience and just about hung up on me
- he was an angry man!

I dont know what to do now though

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Thanks (again Miss W)

I just phoned the shop where I bought my tank and asked if they sold amonnia in order for me to do a fishless cycle.

He went bizerke!

Shouting " dont put household amonnia near your tank" he said either buy a bacteria pack or put half a dozen neons in first and that'll do it!!

I told him that most people seem to be telling me that a fishless cycle is what I should do and he said he had 30 years of experience and just about hung up on me
- he was an angry man!

I dont know what to do now though

ignore him, he's talking a load of toss!!!

those bacteria packs are rubbish, they just want your money, unless they're stored in perfect refrigeration from production to when they get to your tank (which 9 times out of 10 they aren't) the bacteria has died and they're no good.

neons are a bad idea for cycling too, years of inbreeding means the neon's you buy today are notoriously week and will most probably die neons now are not what they we're 30 years ago, i and many others would not advise them to be added to a tank that's less than 6 months old.

sadly (and i mean this in no way offensivley to those older than me) there's a lot of older people who have kept fish for many years and become stubborn and set in they're ways. they haven't embraced any of the new developments or technology in the hobby. this sounds just like him sadly.

fishless cycling is rapidly becoming the accepted way to start a tank, it's dead easy and not a lot of work, it requires just a little patience and a bottle of ammonia.

 

[Loopza]

I contacted another shop and they told me that fishless cycling is dangerous and pointless. He offered to give me some media from one of his tanks and told me in detail how to cycle the tank (which sounds so complicated ) but recommends I DO NOT do it.

I appreciate your help (I really do) but having read through a number of threads on this forum I notice that most people are spending weeks and even months playing around with chemical balances in an empty tank. If anything is going to put a 12 year old off keeping fish then that will.

The bloke in the shop has been keeping fish and running this shop for decades and he and his shop are highly recomonended in Practical Fishkeeping Magazine. He said he'll give me some gravel to add to the tank prior to stocking and also insisted that I stock very slowly and build up over a period of weeks.

This sounds like a better plan for me and my boy. I wont come on here and gloat if it works I promise, but I'll be sure to come back to you if it doesn't work and you can tell me in no uncertain terms " I told you so!! "

Thanks again Miss W

 

[andyt_uk]

I contacted another shop and they told me that fishless cycling is dangerous and pointless. He offered to give me some media from one of his tanks and told me in detail how to cycle the tank (which sounds so complicated ) but recommends I DO NOT do it.

I appreciate your help (I really do) but having read through a number of threads on this forum I notice that most people are spending weeks and even months playing around with chemical balances in an empty tank. If anything is going to put a 12 year old off keeping fish then that will.

The bloke in the shop has been keeping fish and running this shop for decades and he and his shop are highly recomonended in Practical Fishkeeping Magazine. He said he'll give me some gravel to add to the tank prior to stocking and also insisted that I stock very slowly and build up over a period of weeks.

This sounds like a better plan for me and my boy. I wont come on here and gloat if it works I promise, but I'll be sure to come back to you if it doesn't work and you can tell me in no uncertain terms " I told you so!! "

Thanks again Miss W

i feel yourpain and frustration
fishless cycling does work and is better for the fish- dangerous? well thats mighty strong talk, i have yet to see evidence of it being dangerous
cycling with fish has been around as long as fish keeping so its understandable how those who dont know different think its the only way

as for using neons to cycle with - just about everyone who has kept neons will testify to losing some in a mature tank let alone one which hasnt matured.

we wont say told you so... we'll just help you pick up the peices and start again if you need to ...you never know you might get lucky...

but ask yourself one last question,
who is giving you advice and hopes you will spend money in the shop?
who is giving advice for free?

was that two questions? i dunno, but i do know fish hate ammonia, and nitraite, and adding fish to a tank that has never seen either before is not ideal...

hope it all works out, if you need to get fish in there first add something really hardy like a danio - the red tail black shark hates other fish of similar shape so only get the one, neon tetra are one of the most fragile fish in the hobby yet cheap and colourful so you can afford to replace them when they die off so easily

one thing you will learn about fish keeping is that there are often as many opinions and experiences with fish as their are sources of opinions and experiences.

however your cycling goes we are all here to help and advice as and when necessary

good luck

 

[Loopza]

If there is one thing I've learnt already it's that Fish Keeping folks are very friendly, kind, helpful and non judgemental.

What a smashing post Andy!

I really appreciate yours and Miss W's advice and far from ignoring it i have taken it on board and while I'm sure it's the best thing to do, I may go for the second best.

I know what you are saying and I know I may sound naive here but I really don't think the guy in the shop (the 2nd one ) is just trying to get my money. He sounded very genuine. I think when he said it could be dangerous he was meaning that I might add the fish when the tank was still full of ammonia .

I'll be back on to let you know what happens and fully except that I should be lambasted for any deaths I may cause however judging by the responses I've had so far I'm sure you'll all be there for me.

Thanks again!

 

[BigIan]

The best thing i ever heard when i was starting out was....

"we don`t look after our fish we look after our water and the fish look after them selves"

Bear that in mind when every anything goes wrong with your tank

 

[Miss Wiggle]

that's fine, it's your tank and your descision what you do with it

you've heard what we and others have to say and have made an informed descision, no one's gonna flame you for that!

i hope it works out and I've got my fingers crossed for you.

the gravel from the shop's tank should kick start things so hopefully it won't be too bad.

please make sure you keep testing your water every day, if your getting high readings for ammonia or nitrite then do 20% water changes, every day if need be to keep them down as low as possible.

good luck and I hope you and your boy really enjoy fishkeeping