Which One Would You Choose?

mrscullen5373

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My friend has a 80 litre tank and she wants a pair of Ram cichlids.
She is constantly asking me which one is better, Bolivian Ram or German Blue Ram.
I have only ever had German Blue's so i dont really know what to tell her.

Which one would you choose?

Bolivian Ram or German Blue Ram?

B.rams are hardier but bigger and not as colourful - GB.rams are smaller more colourful but very sensitive


What are your opinions?

Oh and which better to breed in a community tank?

Thanks guys x x x
 
Bolivians, unless the fish keeper is an experienced hobbiest and either their tap water is suitably soft or they use RO water in the tank.
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Bolivian Rams hands down - for all the young Bolivian Rams you see in the shops and most of the internet to be fair are quite dull and a bit funny looking as adults they are quite stunning in their own right, all their fins get bright red edges to all their fins and they get trailing threads to the fins as well which keep this luminous red through out, the body takes on a yellow colour and speckling like their larger cousins Geophagus develops behind the gills on the body and a little around the face.

But the main reason is just because German Blue Rams dont survive for their full life span in community tanks. It varies in success levels between keepers with some living for a matter of weeks but others make it into full life span of 5 years and many dieing in between the two.

I think this is down to how closely they are related to the wild fish used to breed the stock. The further away from the wild fish I think have a better chance of living in whats classed as a community setting.

Fish use the ph and resulting nutrients and levels to grow and temperature they live in dictates their metabolism and also works with their respiratory and breathing system. So when a fish like this does not have its ph needs and temperature needs met, it develops deficiencies in these areas.

In other species like some central american cichlids who need a high ph and flowing water if these are not met it is common for some of them to develop bone problems, a lot of central american cichlids kept in low (for them) ph often have bumpy heads which can be a sign of this.

In contrast a relative of the Rams (both species) is the Gymnogeophagus who need a cooling period to survive in a tank setting. This means that across winter their tanks have to cool naturally away from the tropical temperatures of their summer months. If this is not met they often (nearly always) die off after 18 months because the cooling period is part of their evolution to survive in their wild setting and when not given this cool period the parts of the fish that respond to this dont do what they need to do and it literally kills them.

So what Im saying is wild rams and the closer to wild ram lines have to have their needs met which is high temperatures and low ph but the further from wild and more domestic strains can survive in community tanks ie neutral ph and average temperatures. But how to predict how close to wild these fish are is pretty much impossible - even the people in the fish shop will rarely know how far removed they are from the fish. Also strains like electric blue and gold etc are not necessarily safe as breeders will often cross the strain with wild fish before sending them to the shops to provide them with quality genes to survive but in turn giving them the needs of the wild fish as well.

Though all that said there are dozens of other dwarf cichlids that can work in the same tanks as rams and in place of them like Laetacaras and Apistos - Nannacara, Biotodoma, Discrossus (spelling) - even dwarf pikes like Crenicichla Regini can thrive in neutral ph and community settings. And often in most of the species they are more peaceful than rams and arguably more colourful - for example - Laetacara sp.Buckelkopf - incredible colours to this fish yet it only takes roughly a 6-8 inch square territory :)

Wills
 
Thanks guys she is thinking of going with bolivians now.

In a 80litre community how many would you suggest?
only 1 or a pair or a trio?

oh and what sort of behaviuors do the bolivians show?
are they very peaceful?
Do they greet you or swim up to front of tank when you enter the room etc?

Oh and i have a spare 65litre tank myself atm could i put any in there for me?

I am really interested in these guys now :)

Thanks again x x x
 
A pair in each tank would work well, Bolivians are even more peaceful than GBR and in larger tanks do really well in groups once you get over 100 liters.

In time as with all cichlids they will swim up and greet you :) With dwarf cichlids though dither fish and well decorated/ planted tanks will ensure confidence :)

Wills
 
Wills - I really like your explanation of the Ram types. Nicely done!

Mrs. Cullen - I have four Bolivians in a 98 litre, and they have done very well during the first month I've had them. You might want to have your friend look over my journal, which has pics and videos of how they look, and also tells you how they behave during their first weeks in a new tank. I'm trying to log all the behavioral details to help other users know what to expect.

Here is the link:

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/339504-a-southerners-bolivian-ram-journal/

I think the Bolivians have great color to them, especially after they grow confident with the environment. And they are great community fish. They are never aggressive to the much smaller Danios and Tetras that I have.
 
wow thankyou everyone

and thanks alot for that link Gvilleguy it looks fab!

Wills, my tank is thinkly planted with silk plants and it have two big caves and bogwood all over the place
(my fellow fish keeping buddys think its silly putting so much effort into such a small tank but there you go!)

What would you class as dither fish?

I was thinking of a shoal of rummy nose tetras (i do love those guys) would they work?

Oh and are there any fish which really shouldnt go in with bolivians?

e.g. corys or gouramis etc

Thanks again x x x
 
Hi, with South American cichlids you are best of including either target fish or dither fish depending on the cichlids your keeping.

Target fish are fast shiney fish that distract the big cichlids from each other. Dither fish are used to bring shy cichlids out the use fish higher in the water and lower in the food chain to tell them if the water is safe.

In tanks if you replicate that then it works well. Rummy nose tetras would work well but IMO the classic set up for German Blue Rams (which I know you like :D) for me is GBR with Rummy Nose Tetras and Sterbai Cories all of them like high temps and low ph and the tank would be really nice too even on a small scale. Just thinking if your a fan of both those fish why not do a softwater tank? Get some Almond Leaves which lower the ph in your tank naturally and are much less complicated than peat filtration and much much much safer than using ph chemicals.

Back to Bolivians though, yeah Rummy nose would be fine as dithers - IMO the best dithers for dwarfs though are pencil fish, I love the coral red and coral pink pencil fish they are amazing! But expensive but they stay high in the water column but are not surface dwellers where as most tetras stay around the middle of the tank rather than right down at the bottom.

Wills
 
Thanks wills for you comments you have helped us both alot!

I am definatly going to get some bolivians some time soon, i have sort of fallen in love ;)

With a pair in my 65 litre how much room would you say is left?

Are bolivians ok with gouramis, honey gouramis?

thankyou x x x
 
Yeah Honeys would be fine, but in 65 liters 2 bolivians and 2 honeys are quite a lot of the stocking.
 
ok but if i put a shoal of tetras in wont that be worse?

thankyou x x x
 
You could probably do

2 Bolivian Rams
2 Honey Gourami
10 Galaxy Rasbora

But I would probably be more tempted to leave the gourami an just keep the Bolivians as the feature fish and stock around them?

Wills
 
That's what I did - I was tempted by Gouramis - but ended up just going with the Bolivians as the center piece.

Mrs. C - I have low lighting in my tank, and when my Amazon Sword plants failed to thrive, I replaced them with silk plants. The Rams love the shade provided by the silk, so it has worked out fine.
 

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