When Using Planting Substrate

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Head over to ukaps, many use it and it is the same as the tropica substrate, they're both just clay, I used it with great results.

Plenty of people seem to be using it here as well. :) It is an inexpensive alternative to the clay-based plant substrates. One could also just use an inert substrate and dose via water column. Substrate choice really doesn't make much of a difference anymore to me, IMO, having used everything from laterite, gravel, fine sand, etc. Even the supposedly heavy root feeders (crypts, swords) will respond extremely well to just water-column dosing. It's up to you.

llj
 
as the cat litter is so cheap compared to planting substrate i will probably do the whole floor of the tank with it and cover it with black gravel, that way if i decide to add some foreground plants later on then im all ready to go . all i will do is stop the cat litter just short of the very front so i can put just the gravel in the front so as to avoid the look of a 2 tone substrate

a couple more questions tho 1stly as truck says the cat litter will absorb nutrients from fish waste , uneaten food etc and release it to the plants , but its going to be a discus tank which will have a much more frequent cleaning regime than a normal setup. if im doing water change and gravel vac every 2 to days will the litter be able to soak up enough nutrients?

also lighting. the tank is a 4x2x2 currently running 2 42 inch 38w arcadia original tropical tubes is that enough or should i add nother tube?
planting will mainly conmsist of amazon swords giant valis and maybe some crypts and a few forground plants . to me it doesnt look that brightly lit with just the 2 tubes plus 2 foot of water is quite deep for the light to penetrate.
 
as the cat litter is so cheap compared to planting substrate i will probably do the whole floor of the tank with it and cover it with black gravel, that way if i decide to add some foreground plants later on then im all ready to go . all i will do is stop the cat litter just short of the very front so i can put just the gravel in the front so as to avoid the look of a 2 tone substrate

a couple more questions tho 1stly as truck says the cat litter will absorb nutrients from fish waste , uneaten food etc and release it to the plants , but its going to be a discus tank which will have a much more frequent cleaning regime than a normal setup. if im doing water change and gravel vac every 2 to days will the litter be able to soak up enough nutrients?

also lighting. the tank is a 4x2x2 currently running 2 42 inch 38w arcadia original tropical tubes is that enough or should i add nother tube?
planting will mainly conmsist of amazon swords giant valis and maybe some crypts and a few forground plants . to me it doesnt look that brightly lit with just the 2 tubes plus 2 foot of water is quite deep for the light to penetrate.

Honestly, if you're dealing with Discus and their waterchanges, I would not be layering substrates, unless you are ok with mixing. That much gravel-vac activity will cause substrate mixing, no doubt about it, no matter how careful you are. If you are fine with this, then go for it, if you are concerned about aesthetics, then you are wasting your time with a layered substrate, IMO. :lol: You'll get a mix of grey kitty litter and black gravel. You might like it.

How big is this tank in gallons? My gut says not to add more light.
 
good point about the risk of the 2 mixing i have given that some consideration maybe i will just add substrate in the areas that will be densely planted and leave the open areas where it will be heavilly vacced as just gravel.

the tank is 453 litre / 100uk gallons which i believe is roughly 120 us gallons .

the only reason im wondering about more light is that at the moment ive got normal valis in there and it is turning brown now after about a month in the tank
 
good point about the risk of the 2 mixing i have given that some consideration maybe i will just add substrate in the areas that will be densely planted and leave the open areas where it will be heavilly vacced as just gravel.

the tank is 453 litre / 100uk gallons which i believe is roughly 120 us gallons .

the only reason im wondering about more light is that at the moment ive got normal valis in there and it is turning brown now after about a month in the tank

Alright, I think you can add another tube, as you'll still have less wattage than you do gallons. I bet you could grow things with two, but you won't have too much light with 3. 4 is too much, though, as I don't know what your CO2 options are going to be. For a tank this size, pressurized is going to be the way to go it if you have to inject CO2. There are so many other factors that would render vallis brown after a month besides lighting. Lack of ferts, Calcium issues, dosing liquid carbon, etc.

To layer the substrate in certain areas only is an option, though, I will say, you will eventually get mixing. It will just happen after a while, unless you do some barrier work.
 
i will probably do some barrier work . to be honest tho re the valis im not too surprised as it was literally just bought from lfs bunched in lead ( which im sure is a factor) and literally just thrown in. i havent dosed with any ferts at all .

as for co2 id rather not if i can avoid it to be honest . i will only be growing easy fairly undemanding plants so i was hoping on a nice nutrient rich root base and plenty of light being enough for healthy growth. im quite happy to dose with a liquid fert if need be as long as it wont affect the discus
 
i will probably do some barrier work . to be honest tho re the valis im not too surprised as it was literally just bought from lfs bunched in lead ( which im sure is a factor) and literally just thrown in. i havent dosed with any ferts at all .

as for co2 id rather not if i can avoid it to be honest . i will only be growing easy fairly undemanding plants so i was hoping on a nice nutrient rich root base and plenty of light being enough for healthy growth. im quite happy to dose with a liquid fert if need be as long as it wont affect the discus

If you're not adding CO2, then don't go light crazy. Don't fall into the tempting idea that if you shortchange in one area, you can overcompensate in others and get good results. With planted tanks, it doesn't work that way. It's the same as the low-light person saying "I'll get better growth if I leave my lights on for 16 hours a day to compensate for only having 1WPG over my HC." Looks great on paper, doesn't end up working well. :lol: If it were me doing the discus tank, I wouldn't even bother with the sustrate either. For the low-management plants you are planning, it is not necessary. IMO, save yourself the hassle of the substrate mixing and the barrier work. You can do it if you want to, it's not a bad idea and I get your reasoning behind it. I just think it over-complicated.

The vallis should be separated into its individuall plantlets and planted. The lead restraint didn't help it. That coupled with the lack of ferts is probably why they are not doing so hot. Vallis doesn't usually demand CO2. I kept vallis nana, lovely smaller species.

Have you given thought to the type of plants for the heat-loving discus. For what you want to do, think crypts, swords, java fern, vallis, etc. All of these species tolerate heat well. Trust me, I live in Miami, FL. We have heat! :lol: Though you wouldn't know it this Winter, got down to the teens with windchill and parts of Miami had light snow. :hyper:

llj
 
the planting substrate was really for my peace of mind and to give the plants the best possible start . my track record with plants is pretty poor to say the least. the look im goin for is this big piece of wood in the centre of the back of the tank ( i that makes sense)
newwood.jpg


with a really big amazon sword 1 end a good size group of giant valis the other end ( hopefully to be able to create a kind of kelp forrest type effect) with some other plants ( undecided which yet) to fill in any gaps .

and if my plants are anything other than lush and green id be really dissapointed . also i would really love 1 of those nice reddy coloured plants somewhere but i fear they may be a bit too demanding for me .

ive got no qualms whatsoever about being able to keep the discus healthy as im comfortable with delicate fish now , however im finding the prospect of planting a tank pretty daunting
 
Not sure about its heat tolerance but Nymphaea lotus var zenkerii is a nice red, red, red lily. It grows quite well in a variety of conditions, including lower light levels. At least, I had no problem with it. Big leaves, very showy. I had a couple of bulbs survive a summer in an outdoor tub. I guess that would qualify as heat tolerant.

Aponogeton crispus will create a kind of kelp forest look. They tolerate heat well too.

That wood is amazing.
 
thanks i love that piece of wood its probaly say just a bit smaller than a basketball and i got it ridiculously cheap off of a well known auction site.

i have done a quick google image search on Aponogeton crispus i like the look of it how tall does it grow? im after something tall as my tank is 2 foot deep ( hence the giant valis)

as for the Nymphaea lotus var zenkerii wow what can i say thats absolutely stunning i have just got to at least try 1 of those .
 
thanks i love that piece of wood its probaly say just a bit smaller than a basketball and i got it ridiculously cheap off of a well known auction site.

i have done a quick google image search on Aponogeton crispus i like the look of it how tall does it grow? im after something tall as my tank is 2 foot deep ( hence the giant valis)

as for the Nymphaea lotus var zenkerii wow what can i say thats absolutely stunning i have just got to at least try 1 of those .

Oh, the aponogeton won't have too much trouble getting that height. At least that has been my experience. Another great plant for height is C. spiralis. My tank is about 21 inches tall, so pretty close to 2ft, and the spiralis leaves sit on the surface. But there are also leaves that are shorter. Behaves like a typical crypt (low-light, not demanding).

Yes, the Nymphaea is beautiful. One of my favorite plants. I only have small daughter bulbs now, not nearly as large or impressive.

For a cool specimen plant, check out Barclaya longifolia. It produces a very strange, orchid-type flower that grows on a stalk. I'm not certain about its heat tolerance, though.

Hurry up and make a journal proper. It's going to be great seeing a nice grouping of larger tanks.

llj :good:

llj
 
im just waiting to do my tax return to get the money needed to do it all and when i do it i am intending to do a journal every step of the way right from strip down of the old setup to the (hopefully) glorious planted discus community . if all gos to plan i should be doing it around mid april ( only about 2 weeks away but seems soooooo long when youre itching to get to work)
 
my lfs have a Nymphaea lotus var zenkerii plant in there tank in with cardinal tetras it looks great
 

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