When Is Ich Not Ich? Updated With Pic

[trianglekitty]

Okay, this is going past the point of ridiculous...

I have a gourami that has been in a hospital tank for a good six months now. He has two small white spots on his body. One at the base of his top fin, and the other toward his vent.

They LOOK like ICH, and indeed two guppies who shared the tank had a bad case of ICH, with many more spots, and were successfully treated. This fish doesn't respond to any treatment I've throw at him. He's otherwise fine- eats well, very active and interactive, doesn't flash or anything.

Treatments I've tried (and yes, each was a full course, and there was no carbon in the filter)-

Rid ICH
Super ICH Cure
Coppersafe
Macycln (probably misspelling that- he had fin rot at one point, but it's almost cleared up)
Tetra Parasite Guard
Salt and heat

The spots definitely are abnormal and not just discolored scales. I'm trying to get a good picture, but my camera isn't great.

I need my hospital tank back to use for quarantining new fish. I have one more thing to try- the Waterlife Protozin I ordered back in Jan just randomly decided to arrive. I have a very strong feeling that won't work either, because at this point I don't think it actually is ICH.

So the question- what looks like ICH, but isn't ICH? If it were ICH, shouldn't he be getting new spots, or having the old ones go away and getting spots in new places? He did have one on his head that eventually went away, but the other two have been stable for months.

There's a fish vet a state away, and I'm seriously at the point where I'm debating how bad the stress would be on him to drive him a few hours away for a consult. I just feel that would be cruel because he doesn't act sick, so I don't want to MAKE him sick, you know? But he can't stay in this little five gallon tank forever either. It figures the first fish I ever own and that gets me into the hobby would be the most frustrating little #29### I could have possibly gotten.

 

[Randomitity]

Well I don't know much about gourami but it could be like Black Moores which have what looks like ich but is signs of being ready for breeding

 

[KittyKat]

Are you saying that the spots are in exactly the same place and never move? If so, it is not ich. Ich spots would fall off in under a week and appear in another place.

 

[Luzi]

Sometimes columnaris causes these 'pimples'. Try an antibacterial, and check for signs of fin & mouth rot.

My platies have has these, and they improved after some bacterial meds

 

[Monty-2010]

if the spots are still in the same place then it sound like it's not ich

 

[fluttermoth]

Well I don't know much about gourami but it could be like Black Moores which have what looks like ich but is signs of being ready for breeding

Gourmais don't get breeding tubercles (and they appear only on the gill covers); good thought though!

 

[This Old Spouse]

What kind of gourami is it? If it's a dwarf gourami, they have their very own lethal disease for which there is no cure. I lost all five of mine to it within two months of having them.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Definitely not Ich. Might possibly be Columnaris- check out these links on columnaris;

http/www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/columnaris_disease.php

http/www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html

 

[trianglekitty]

Yeah, the spots never move.

I KNEW I was treating for the wrong thing...should have listened to my instincts. The guy at the LFS kept insisting it was ICH.

To be honest though, it doesn't look like any of the pictures for Columnaris. They all show pretty extensive lesions, and he only has the two, which have never gotten worse. He does have the fin rot though, which would fit with the Columnaris. Any suggestions for the best med to use? We've done Maracyn Two with no benefit. Maybe Pimafix?

I'm fairly positive it isn't dwarf gouarmi disease (and he is indeed a dwarf gouarmi). One of the primary signs of that seems to be shyness and refusal to eat, and he's not displaying those signs.

 

[This Old Spouse]

Sure would like to see some photos. I think it's very odd that he's had this for so long. And btw, my last dwarf was as friendly and hungry as ever until the day he died. I hope this isn't what yours has.

 

[Squidward]

My Bleeding Heart had what I thought was Ich. But it didn't respond to any treatment.
After a bit of research I discovered there are other parastic diseases that affect "skirt tetras", that are virtually untreatable.
Fish seems ok, but is covered in white spots similar to Ich.

 

[Bignose]

All, there exist in the literature reports of strains of ich that form the cysts but then never fall off. So, it cannot be said with 100% certainty that it isn't ich. Unfortunately, when the parasite is in its cyst form on the fish, it will not be vulnerable to medication.

Basically, you will probably need to keep those two fish on their own for the rest of their lives. You don't want to risk spreading this nasty strain of ich or whatever disease they have to other fish. Especially if you swap fish with someone else or try your hand at breeding. We want this strain to remain as isolated as possible.

 

[trianglekitty]

Sure would like to see some photos. I think it's very odd that he's had this for so long. And btw, my last dwarf was as friendly and hungry as ever until the day he died. I hope this isn't what yours has.

I hope it isn't what mine has too! Did yours develop any sort of spots?

This is the best photo I could take. If you look close you can see a white spot near the base of his tail. It's yellow white and raised.

All, there exist in the literature reports of strains of ich that form the cysts but then never fall off. So, it cannot be said with 100% certainty that it isn't ich. Unfortunately, when the parasite is in its cyst form on the fish, it will not be vulnerable to medication.

Basically, you will probably need to keep those two fish on their own for the rest of their lives. You don't want to risk spreading this nasty strain of ich or whatever disease they have to other fish. Especially if you swap fish with someone else or try your hand at breeding. We want this strain to remain as isolated as possible.

Silly question, but would it be possible to restrain the fish and scrape the cysts off? Since he only has two? And then treat for possible bacteria infection (as you'd be leaving small wounds behind)? Or would that just do more harm than good?

 

[trianglekitty]

Just to make things more complicated...the guppies he was in with showed signs of ICH first, and much more severe than he did. They were treated, and at the time he had no spots. They've been moved to a tank with other fish, and in the four-five months since none of the fish in that tank have showed any signs. This fish only developed the spots AFTER those guppies had been moved, and no new fish have been in that tank since those guppies.

 

[Bignose]

Silly question, but would it be possible to restrain the fish and scrape the cysts off? Since he only has two? And then treat for possible bacteria infection (as you'd be leaving small wounds behind)? Or would that just do more harm than good?

I don't have any direct experience, but I don't think that the above is a good idea. I'd just set up a tank with those two fish and let them live out the rest of their natural lives.