What To Do.......need Some Advice Please?

[elisew]

I currently have a 40" (what I consider to be a large) tank that has 6 Rummy nose tetras, 5 harlequins, 3 swordtails, 3 small mollies, 6 danios and 4 minnow.

I also have 2 firemouth cichlids in a smaller tank.


My query is:

Since I began to keep fish in the community tank about a year and a half ago, the fish have depleted hugely and I and the lad I spoke to at the big local store think it could be due to the hardness/limescale of the water in my area. I did have a lot of platies but they seemed to be 'fragile' and I consistently lost those. I`ve had the water in the tank tested a number of times but it was fine, no problems but 'just in case' I even went the whole hog and completely stripped it down to start again because of how many fish I kept losing.

Anyway, because the number of fish has dwindled so much I am now considering changing from a community tank of the above mentioned fish to a tank that consists of cichlids instead.
I have the 2 firemouth already and have had them for about 7 months now, I`ve had no bother or problems with them at all so I`m thinking the cichlids being hardier would be a better option.

I would like some advice on what other fish I can keep with the firemouths, would Kribs, jacks, convicts, Angelfish (examples) be ok with the FM`s? I absolutely love my fish and would like to make sure I get it right in making a choice as to what can be kept together.

I apologise if this topic has been covered elsewhere, I`ve Googled and read loads over the last couple of days for some info but as always the info differs everywhere, so I thought it may be best to just ask in a specific place and hopefully get some good info and advice based on personal experiences.

Thanks in advance

 

[Wills]

Never worry about asking a question that may have already been asked it always differs from person to person at the end of the day

Welcome to the forum though! Sounds like you have had a bit of a pickle with your tank, first thing to say though is stop listening to your LFS because if the guy is telling you that platies cant handle UK water its wrong in the wild they come from Central America which has similar water to the UK at times, then again most store bought platies are farm bred so bear little resemblence to their wild needs you might just have had bad stock as these fish are often bred for quantity not quality.

What kind of filter are you running on your tank and how often do you do a water change and clean the tank? What size is the tank over all like in liters? When you cleaned out the tank in the overhaul how much did you clean the filter?

When the other fish died did they look sick? Bloated, lots of white spots, white patches on body, fluff around mouths or on fins, red streaking, thin and not eating, or scales popping out? Is it possible that one of the other fish could have killed them you sometimes hear of quite aggressive mollies could they have done it?

When you say you have 2 FMs in a smaller tank than 40 inches how big is this small tank? I would usually recomend a 40 inch tank minimum for 2 FMs so a bit concerned about how small this is other tank is. You may have had a problem free 7 months with them so far but pretty soon they will hit sexual maturity and if you have 2 males could be problems if you have a male and a female they might take over the whole 40 inch to them selves if its 2 females might be slightly less problematic.

Depending on the size of the other tank and once we have worked out whats going on in your big tank I would swap your stock a fair bit. Totally depending on the capacity of your 40 inch tank and the size of your smaller tank I would speculatively suggest something like -

In the 40 inch

2 Firemouths
3 Swordtails
3 Mollies
6 Danios

And in the smaller tank depending on size

6 Rummy Nose
6 Harlequins
6 Minnow

Depending on the other dimensions of the tanks and the capacity you may be able to add more fish to each tank.

I know its a lot of questions but its just the best way for us to get an idea of whats going on in your tank

Hope thats helped

Wills

(lol posted it in your other post so just pasted it here)

 

[ChilliPepper]

Ah, my sympathies to you. I also live in a very hard water area. The limescale builds up very quickly on my kettle, it's a never ending battle.
Knowing what I know now, I would may have gone with African cichlids who prefer high pH 7.5+. I'd have ideal water for them. Though I've got NW cichlids and have found they do well in my water as well. I had problems with tetras etc being fragile/sensitive, even though I always keep on top of my tank maintenance, so have come to the conclusion that my water is just too hard for them.

In fact I've stuck with cichlids, until my recent 'experiment' with some dwarf rainbowfish. They seem to be doing OK in my water, but early days as only had them two weeks this Saturday.

Anyway, getting back to your original question (sorry, just wanted to emphathise with a fellow hard-waterer).

What about trying a single Convict with the FM's? They are both Central American, so could work. Just get the one though as if they breed they can be very nasty.

I'm not sure about Angelfish. Have tried them before but again found them very sensitive, even though cichlids. May just have been bad luck with juvis.

How big is the tank in litres and what sort of filtration do you have?

 

[elisew]

Hi Wills and ChilliPepper, thanks for your replies

You`ll have to excuse my 'dimness/vagueness' on any of my answers....as a blonde my memory is terrible but I`ll endeavour to answer as best as I can.

The larger tank (community) is approx 160/170 litres (I think) 40"x14"x20" and has 2 Fluval plus filters running in there. Pebbles, Bogwood and live plants.

The smaller tank (cichlid) is approx 60 litres (I think) 14"x11x14 and has the next size down from the fluval plus. sand, big stones and bogwood and live plants.

Quite a few people around this area have lost a lot of fish so we came to the conclusion that the main reason is because of the hard water. Some fish start to look 'old' and drawn in and then die, others die suddenly when they`ve been ok shortly before. There`s all sorts of differences so I`m at a complete loss to be honest. I`ve only ever had 1 really aggressive male, sailfin molly, he didn`t settle down with the rest so I took him back to the shop.
The guy at the lfs/garden centre has kept fish himself for over 30 years and has only experienced problems himself since he moved locally too.

I`m currently thinking that as the community fish are dying off that I`m obviously going to be left with only a few (if any) so wanted to try the cichlid option as they seem to tolerate the water better. I did have a male and female dwarf gourami in the tank a while ago and they were absolutely fine, no aggression at all but they died too

I`ve always been pretty on top of making sure water changes are done regularly, normally I`ll do a 25-30% every 2-3 weeks and I always treat the water. When I gutted the tank I left the filters alone so that some of the previous bacteria could go back into the tank, I changed from pea shingle to bigger pebbles and planted more live plants too.
Although the fish die, they have actually bred like rabbits at times so I guess I must be doing something right somewhere

Anyway, I and the lfs/garden centre have tested the water on regular occasions and the results have shown nothing of any concern, hence the ultimate conclusion of the water hardness being the main culprit.


I forgot to add that I also have a small clown pleco and a small snail eating loach in the community tank too, plus 3 smallish albino corys. Sounds like a fair bit but it`s actually not, theres lots of room in the tank still.

Sorry for the long post, hopefully I`ve covered the questions asked.

 

[Wills]

Do you have a water test kit? 2-3 weeks isnt really often enough for water changes IMO I do 50% weekly and feel bad if I miss one really. Im interested to know your nitrate reading but not sure what it is, if a lot of people have had problems with the local water have you contacted the water board to get a break down of whats in their water? If its a long term thing it could save your fish and your money.

A 60 liter tank is no way big enough for 2 firemouths how big are they? Being central americans tey should have got to a good 4 inches in 7months really....

I think the tank plans I mentioned earlier would work well get all the fish that do well in hard water in your 170 liter tank and all the schoolers in the small tank. I would have done that on the set out really? Sicne the firemouths will hit 6-8 inches and all your comm fish get to like 2 inches?

Wills

 

[ChilliPepper]

Putting your tank dimensions into the calculator above comes out at 180 litres, which is a decent sized tank. Two FM would be good in there. They get to about 6.5" each, so it does limit your other stocking taking into account their adult size. You can also add your other schooling fish, like Wills said. Plus the Plec and the Cories. The smaller tank would be fully stocked with your other fish.

You say you have two filters on the big tank which is great, but you still need to take out at least 20% of water every week. It is the only way to get rid of harmful nitrates. I'd recommend taking out 30% of water on both tanks, as they are both well stocked.

 

[elisew]

The nitrates and ammonia have been between 0 and 1, because these have been low due to having had the tank running for so long no-one seems to think these levels have been a problem?? ph is around 7.2 most of the time, obviously depending on when I`ve done a water change.

When I was using a previous LFS, I was doing approx 40-50% water change every week but they told me I was doing too much too often, so I cut it down over the next few weeks to where I am now......20-30% every 2-3 weeks. This was the same LFS that told me that the smaller tank would be ok for the cichlids. I have had my reservations about that LFS and I was wondering if it was their fish stock that may have been the problem and why they were dying all the time, hence the change to the LFS/garden centre I mentioned in my previous post and the danios bought from the more recent LFS have actually lasted longer than any of the fish from the previous LFS.
It`s bl**dy frustrating when you rely on people who are supposed to know what they`re doing when selling fish, I wouldn`t mind but I stay away from places like pets at home because most of the staff don`t have a clue

I`m thinking of maybe waiting to see if I lose any more fish before I do anything about moving the cichlids into the larger tank? they`re only about 2.5-3 inches long at the moment and do have lots of room in the tank so I`m hoping they`ll be ok just for a little bit longer and as the other fish are dying off I won`t have to swap and change them all around.
I`m so wary of putting the cichlids in with any of the community fish because I was told they`re aggressive with all community fish.......it`s all soooo confusing lol

So, supposing I end up with very few or no community fish left, what kind of other fish could I put in the big tank with the FM`s? I may be wrong (probably am) but 2 FM`s in such a big tank on their own seems like such a waste of space?? and I honestly thought it would be ok to have other kinds i.e Jacks, Kribs etc in there as well, or is this not right?
Also IF I put the FM`s into the large tank and the community fish into the smaller tank, would that not then be too many fish in the smaller tank??

I`m sorry to keep asking so many questions, I just want to make sure I get it right

 

[ChilliPepper]

The nitrates and ammonia have been between 0 and 1, because these have been low due to having had the tank running for so long no-one seems to think these levels have been a problem?? ph is around 7.2 most of the time, obviously depending on when I`ve done a water change.

When I was using a previous LFS, I was doing approx 40-50% water change every week but they told me I was doing too much too often, so I cut it down over the next few weeks to where I am now......20-30% every 2-3 weeks. This was the same LFS that told me that the smaller tank would be ok for the cichlids. I have had my reservations about that LFS and I was wondering if it was their fish stock that may have been the problem and why they were dying all the time, hence the change to the LFS/garden centre I mentioned in my previous post and the danios bought from the more recent LFS have actually lasted longer than any of the fish from the previous LFS.
It`s bl**dy frustrating when you rely on people who are supposed to know what they`re doing when selling fish, I wouldn`t mind but I stay away from places like pets at home because most of the staff don`t have a clue

I`m thinking of maybe waiting to see if I lose any more fish before I do anything about moving the cichlids into the larger tank? they`re only about 2.5-3 inches long at the moment and do have lots of room in the tank so I`m hoping they`ll be ok just for a little bit longer and as the other fish are dying off I won`t have to swap and change them all around.
I`m so wary of putting the cichlids in with any of the community fish because I was told they`re aggressive with all community fish.......it`s all soooo confusing lol

So, supposing I end up with very few or no community fish left, what kind of other fish could I put in the big tank with the FM`s? I may be wrong (probably am) but 2 FM`s in such a big tank on their own seems like such a waste of space?? and I honestly thought it would be ok to have other kinds i.e Jacks, Kribs etc in there as well, or is this not right?
Also IF I put the FM`s into the large tank and the community fish into the smaller tank, would that not then be too many fish in the smaller tank??

I`m sorry to keep asking so many questions, I just want to make sure I get it right

You're right, all your community fish in the 60L would be waaaaay overstocked. To be honest the Rummy Nose, Harlequins and Minnows make it overstocked, so you'd need to overfilter and do decent waterchanges to compensate.

Maybe your LFS will take your community fish in? Or exchange for something else.

You could have 2 x FM, 8 Barbs (Rosy or Tiger possibly) or large Tetras like Congos and one or two small Plecs. The Cories may be OK with the FM, someone else may be able to advise better as I haven't kept either together.

I always take LFS advise with a pinch of salt. Never found one that has advised me properly. Weekly water changes are always going to benefit your fish, as long as the water you put back in is the same temperature and is of course dechlorinated.

 

[elisew]

Thanks ChilliPepper. I think the option of asking the LFS to take the community fish is a good one, I`m quite a regular there so they may well agree to lol. IF they do, would having the FM`s, cory`s, clown pleco, barbs all be ok in the larger tank then? I know I keep asking but only because I like the Kribs, would I be able to have a couple in the tank as well or is there another similar that would be ok? I would like something that is a different colour, maybe a blue or purple??

I`ve been reading around the forum and looking at pics. I`m actually beginning to wonder if the FM`s are actually FM`s? I know it makes me sound really dumb but the info recievd from the previous LFS has now made me doubt everything they told me and sold me.

Are these definitely FM`s? The pic was taken about 2 months ago.

 

[ChilliPepper]

Thanks ChilliPepper. I think the option of asking the LFS to take the community fish is a good one, I`m quite a regular there so they may well agree to lol. IF they do, would having the FM`s, cory`s, clown pleco, barbs all be ok in the larger tank then? I know I keep asking but only because I like the Kribs, would I be able to have a couple in the tank as well or is there another similar that would be ok? I would like something that is a different colour, maybe a blue or purple??

I`ve been reading around the forum and looking at pics. I`m actually beginning to wonder if the FM`s are actually FM`s? I know it makes me sound really dumb but the info recievd from the previous LFS has now made me doubt everything they told me and sold me.

Are these definitely FM`s? The pic was taken about 2 months ago.

Nooooo, they are Bolivian Rams! A dwarf cichlid, so open up a lot more possibilities!

Rams are a peaceful species (I have one myself, cute guy) so you could actually keep your existing stock I think. What other fish have you got again? Danios, Minnows..?

 

[elisew]

Do you know, I had my doubts a little while ago because these aren`t as red underneath as I expected FM`s to be. I just put it down to them being young and hadn`t matured yet!! OK so blonde and dumb.....that`s already been confirmed now

Just as well I asked huh?

I currently have, mollies, swordtails, harlequins, minnows, danios, rummys, pleco, loach and corys.

So there`s more possibilities??? Tell me more lol

 

[ChilliPepper]

Read this about the Rams http/www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/caresheets/caresheet.php?caresheetID=114

and this about the Firemouths http/www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/caresheets/caresheet.php?caresheetID=109

You can see the difference.

Unfortunately it is not unusual for LFS to mislabel fish so don't feel bad

 

[elisew]

Read this about the Rams http/www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/caresheets/caresheet.php?caresheetID=114

and this about the Firemouths http/www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/caresheets/caresheet.php?caresheetID=109

You can see the difference.

Unfortunately it is not unusual for LFS to mislabel fish so don't feel bad

Crikey, you can tell the difference when it`s right under your nose!!

I`m actually chuffed to bits that they`re Rams and not FM`s now because they`re more peaceful

I have the tank size, sand, rocks and leaves right for them so at least I`ve done something right lol. I think I have a male and a female, that`s if the LFS was right in sexing them anyway but I can`t be sure of that now.

Are there any other rams, maybe different colours that I could have with these Rams in the big tank? I`d so love to have different fish but only if they were compatible with the fish I already have.

 

[ChilliPepper]

I'd put the Minnows, Mollies and Harlequins in the 60L. Then the Swordtails, Danios, Rummys, Plec, Loach and Cories in with the Rams.

How many do you have of each, do you have mixed sexes of the livebearers (mollies and swordtails) or single sexes? Also what kind of Loach and Plec do you have?

 

[elisew]

I'd put the Minnows, Mollies and Harlequins in the 60L. Then the Swordtails, Danios, Rummys, Plec, Loach and Cories in with the Rams.

How many do you have of each, do you have mixed sexes of the livebearers (mollies and swordtails) or single sexes? Also what kind of Loach and Plec do you have?

From what I can count at the moment I have 3 female mollies (small young and pregnant as male just died), 1 male and 2 female swordtails and one very small swordtail, not sure which sex yet. Clown pleco, he`s about 3 inches in length, 3 albino corys and a snail eating loach, he`s about 3.5 inches in length. One of the harlequins is quite large but the others are only small young ones. minnows look to be about 2 inches (max) in length. I also forgot that I have 2 small neon tetras as well.