What Should I Do :-L

[SensesFail]

Ok today I was supposed to be going to get a few fish but they are not coming in for a few days now and iv drained the whole tank getting my nitrate readings to 0 ammonia is 0 and nitrite is 0.

What should I do now just add ammonia and do the whole tank clean thing again or just wait a few days until the fish come in leaving the tank ammonia less? Wont this kill the bacteria with no ammonia in the tank?

If you guys think I should feed the ammonia should I wait until the dosing time which was 5pm

Cheers guys!!!

 

[ZoddyZod]

how long in total will the tank be free of ammonia and fish for?

I've read that a bacteria colony will usually see a die-off of VERY ROUGHLY 10% each day and can double itself within 24hrs (if enough ammonia/nitrite is available) so having the tank empty and not doing ammonia for 4 days should only lose you about 30% of the colony.

Someone tell me that I'm not a million miles off with this statement?

 

[james_fish]

how long in total will the tank be free of ammonia and fish for?

I've read that a bacteria colony will usually see a die-off of VERY ROUGHLY 10% each day and can double itself within 24hrs (if enough ammonia/nitrite is available) so having the tank empty and not doing ammonia for 4 days should only lose you about 30% of the colony.

Someone tell me that I'm not a million miles off with this statement?

Nope your right, your looking at losing around 20-40% of your bacteria colony. But aslong as you only add a few fish at a time it may be enough despite the loss. But like said it will make up the numbers in no time anyway.

James.

 

[waterdrop]

Yeah, it's a really weird feeling after cycling all these weeks to realize that your filter is now *creating* the right water for your fish in a matter of 12 hours. I remember being a little shocked when I realized that if your NO3 was still low, you could actually feed the bacteria 5ppm of ammonia and yet still have good water for the fish after 12 hours...you see, the filter is now in charge and *making* your water be good in a basic sense!

That being said, if you have been dosing baking soda (I forget, have you??) then the big water changes are more important I feel and so soing multiple of them makes me feel better. So think of it this way: Big total gravel-clean-water-changes just before the fish start to acclimate in are a good idea for the excess nitrate(NO3) and for any residual bicarb (baking soda) to get flushed out, but as long as you give it 12 hours, the ammonia and nitrite will have already flushed your main poisons. Make sense?

You only lose maybe 2% of the bacteria if they go without ammonia 24 hours, so you have a little room to play with non-ammonia water being in there in the period before the fish start their acclimatizing. In other words, you put all that together and you have various playing room, or room to make mistakes and still come out just fine.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[SensesFail]

Yeah, it's a really weird feeling after cycling all these weeks to realize that your filter is now *creating* the right water for your fish in a matter of 12 hours. I remember being a little shocked when I realized that if your NO3 was still low, you could actually feed the bacteria 5ppm of ammonia and yet still have good water for the fish after 12 hours...you see, the filter is now in charge and *making* your water be good in a basic sense!

That being said, if you have been dosing baking soda (I forget, have you??) then the big water changes are more important I feel and so soing multiple of them makes me feel better. So think of it this way: Big total gravel-clean-water-changes just before the fish start to acclimate in are a good idea for the excess nitrate(NO3) and for any residual bicarb (baking soda) to get flushed out, but as long as you give it 12 hours, the ammonia and nitrite will have already flushed your main poisons. Make sense?

You only lose maybe 2% of the bacteria if they go without ammonia 24 hours, so you have a little room to play with non-ammonia water being in there in the period before the fish start their acclimatizing. In other words, you put all that together and you have various playing room, or room to make mistakes and still come out just fine.

~~waterdrop~~

Hmm I wonder if it's worth dosing ammonia keeping the colony high and do another complete water change the day I know the fish are ready and waiting. The guy said they should be in Within a few days but that could mean tomorrow the next day or even Friday l I guess theres no bother doing the whole thing again or should I just leave it? If I dose to 4-5 ppm as usual?

 

[Uriel]

Why not just add fish food to the tank each day ?

 

[waterdrop]

Well, my feeling is why not just ammonia, as that's the familiar thing to someone like SF who's been cycling for ages. Fishfood would take a full two days or so to be broken down into ammonia during which time you'd still get the 2-10% (or whatever) bacterial colony die-off. A day or two's worth of ammonia dosing is not going to put enough nitrate back in there to warrant yet another water change necessarily.. OR, if it feels like there is time and SF simply wants to do it, another water change wouldn't hurt anything and would have the satisfying feel of removing still more bicarb (did we ever answer that?) and of course some more nitrate. Usually though in the last couple of days it doesn't matter one way or the other as you can just plan to do another water change after the fish are in a little sooner than you might otherwise (it's good practice anyway to start getting the feel of watching out to not hurt the fish with the cleaning cylinder if you are a beginner.)

But I'm not saying anything bad about a little fishfood seeding (other than the built-in delay) as you know I kind of like the idea of some extra bits of fishfood being around near the end of a fishless cycle and during the beginning week or two with fish, to help "complicate" the mix of heterotrophs in there, now that our autotrophs are well extablished. What do you think, Uriel?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[SensesFail]

Oh yer bicarb I did have lots of this added to the tank even after changing the substrate so maybe worth doing one more big water change. I have not touched the cannister filter for sometime is it worth rinsing the sponges in the tank water on the next big water change and maybe renewing the cotton pads? They are really thin or seem it? Then just quickly dip the pads in the water?

When I get the fish how often do I need to feed? 2 times or 3 times a day? How long after added the fish do you feed? Fish time is near and I'm like oh what do i need to do ah! Been so long cycling!

 

[Uriel]

Don't wash the filter pads. You only need to wash them to remove organic material that hasn't been broken down and you won't have any as you have been cycling with ammonia. Messing with the filter how has a chance of damaging the bacteria you have built up.

The reason i suggested fish food is that although there is a delay in the ammonia getting into the filter at this point I would worry about adding ammonia if i wasn't going to do another water change. Just a bit of personal paranoia but thought the fish food was a middle ground if he didn't want to worry about this.

I mix a bit of fish food in more for the extra trace elements rather than the extra hetrogenous bacteria. As i believe the bacteria that break the food down into ammonia multiplies every 10-15 minutes meaning that it is very quick to colonise your tank.

 

[Skins]

When I get the fish how often do I need to feed? 2 times or 3 times a day? How long after added the fish do you feed? Fish time is near and I'm like oh what do i need to do ah! Been so long cycling!

I feed my fish once a day for a 2 minute period, may be twice a week they will get extra treats. When i have bought fish I always wait until the next day before feeding.

Keith.

 

[SensesFail]

Is it worth buying the stress products you can buy for when adding the fish? Which stress products are the best if so?

 

[Skins]

Is it worth buying the stress products you can buy for when adding the fish? Which stress products are the best if so?

The only chemicals i use is the dechlorinator, if your water chemistry is good and all maintance is performed weekly/monthly then all should be well.

Keith.

 

[waterdrop]

Don't wash the filter pads. You only need to wash them to remove organic material that hasn't been broken down and you won't have any as you have been cycling with ammonia. Messing with the filter how has a chance of damaging the bacteria you have built up.

Completely agree. Leave the filter alone for a while.

The reason i suggested fish food is that although there is a delay in the ammonia getting into the filter at this point I would worry about adding ammonia if i wasn't going to do another water change. Just a bit of personal paranoia but thought the fish food was a middle ground if he didn't want to worry about this.

I think you should feel confident to shed this paranoia. The guys (Chris Cow and others) who first thought up and tried ammonia fishless cycling must have definately felt a bit paranoid those first few times but the wonderful thing about it is that it is well proven now, there's nothing mysterious about it. It is not "chemically" (a non-scientific thought I remember having ) it is just simple ammonia and when it has been converted to on through nitrite to nitrate in about 12 hours it is really and truly.. gone! And it's gone such that the fish will be happy as can be!

I mix a bit of fish food in more for the extra trace elements rather than the extra hetrogenous bacteria. As i believe the bacteria that break the food down into ammonia multiplies every 10-15 minutes meaning that it is very quick to colonise your tank.

I agree with this. Very small amounts of fishfood are just plain good in multiple ways. Trace elements, Nitrate and Phosphorus ferts to a small extent and encouragement of different species of heterotrophs. All of it is good and small bits are unlikely to foul the tank.

When I get the fish how often do I need to feed? 2 times or 3 times a day? How long after added the fish do you feed? Fish time is near and I'm like oh what do i need to do ah! Been so long cycling!

I feed my fish once a day for a 2 minute period, may be twice a week they will get extra treats. When i have bought fish I always wait until the next day before feeding.

Keith.

I agree with this too. Don't feed them the first day but then start in lightly the next. Deciding how much and how often to feed your fish is a thing you will gradually refine. When describing it to beginners we try to walk a middle line in order to learn the pros and cons. Overfeeding is the most common, so we cite the "what they can eat in 2 to 3 minutes once a day" guideline. (Fish have never evolved a mechanism like the feeling of satiety (fullness) that we have as human vertebrates, so it is sometimes speculated that overfeeding them is kind of like making them throw up. And their stomach truly is more or less the size of their eye.) ...BUT, on the other hand, we do know from studies that fish that are fed very tiny amounts multiple times a day (ultimately a bit more than the previous guideline sounds like) actually grow larger and may be more healthy. But of course it's all hard to tell and the scientists don't really know that well either.

Note that if you are planning to do low-light technique live plants, then sometimes having a little extra fishfood getting left in the tank can be a good thing. It supplies some of the macronutrients (N,P,K) that plants need. I don't want to speak for OM47, but it's my impression that both he and I feel that the "healthier if not starved" thing, and the "a little extra for the plants" thing provides some counter-balance to overdoing the "keep it very light" guidelines that go around a lot. Over time you really do become a better judge of the feeding behavior of your fish, and that helps!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[SensesFail]

Thanks for the advice WD appreciated as everD

can't wait to get all sorted now! Going to add a few at a time unless the LFS get a few in. The cats will be last when I know every things good. At the cost can't bare to loose those. Nor can I loose any regardless of price but they are the most expensive fish going in.

Now I need to research what fish food for cichlids. Have tetra pro crisps and tetra prima so far.

 

[Uriel]

What Cat fish are you getting that are so expensive ? I've spent silly money on corydoras this week but i got a dose of the I wants.