Weird parameters

[WhistlingBadger]

Well, we're getting settled into the new Badger Manor, and I finally uncovered the box with my test kits. Got some kind of weird results:
GH: Negligible, less than 4 degrees.
KH: 5 degrees. Can KH be higher than GH? Is that even possible?
pH: High. 7.5 or 8? (On the record: I HATE reading API pH tests, since everything between about 6.5 and 8 looks the same to me)

So, I need fish that love basic water with no hardness. ha ha Or maybe it's time to start stocking up on peat and Indian almond leaves.

 

[Guyb93]

My Gh is always higher than my KH my Gh is around 120ppm and KH is always around 40ppm

 

[seangee]

Yes KH can be higher than GH.
I suspect the pH has been raised to prevent corrosion. It will probably drop overnight. SOft water fish will be fine. No need to adjust anything - unless of course you have hard water fish.

 

[mcordelia]

To what @seangee said, did you test "fresh" tap water, or did you let it sit out for a day or two?

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Tested it fresh out of the tap. I'll let some sit out overnight and try again--thanks for the tip.

I am planning a nano biotope with species that prefer slightly acidic water. The tank that will have a soil substrate, which should help lower the pH a bit.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Water can be weird stuff. It's really weird, around here. Our water supply comes from a mountain creek that flows through several miles of limestone canyon to get here (thus the high KH?) but our town water is always extremely soft. I have to add cichlid salt and/or epsom to my rainbow tank to keep them happy.

I should really go up the canyon sometime and test the creek water--it would be interesting to see if it's soft out of the creek or if the city is doing something to it.

 

[eatyourpeas]

Our water is very strange too. We get it from an aquifer and as the island keeps getting developed more lawn fertilizer chemicals are messing with the health of the source. Plus, every now and then the city flushes the main pipes and it throws everything off. The last time it caught me off guard because I did not walk to town the usual way and I missed the warning signs.

 

[mcordelia]

Our water here isn't strange, just problematic. Our water source is surface water from the huron river (same water as what Flint, Michigan uses), which is incredibly polluted and has a ton of runoff from both agriculture and industry. I think our town tries to "ameliorate" it by mixing in water sourced from aquifers and some kind of rainwater collecting ponds, but I get the impression that the ratios that they are able to use to mix in with it vary seasonally, so when you read our local annual water report the ranges of measurements are incredible. For pH, it says something like average 8, range 7-9.5. And the hardness is also all over the place. I've decided my best bet is to just get fish that are hardy,and not do large water changes ever.....

 

[StevenF]

box with my test kits. Got some kind of weird results:
GH: Negligible, less than 4 degrees.
KH: 5 degrees. Can KH be higher than GH? Is that even possible?

there is nothing weird about the result if you understand what each measures.

GH measers for the presences of calcium and magnesium. Nothing else. So you basically have what is commonly called soft water. How many drops did you add during the GH test before you saw the color change. IF it is 2 drops (2 degrees) or less you might want to consider using a GH booster. Water without any GH is not good for any plants or animals.

The KH test detect carbonate salts. Which commonly calcium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate, or potassium bicarbonate.Since you water is soft you don't have much calcium or magnesium carbonate. Meaning your water is rich in sodium and potassium bicarbonates.

With you water having significant levels of bicarbonates you PH is likely over 7. Bicarbonates increase PH. If you have trouble comparing color charts you should consider getting a PH probe.It will give you a digital readout of of the PH.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

there is nothing weird about the result if you understand what each measures.

GH measers for the presences of calcium and magnesium. Nothing else. So you basically have what is commonly called soft water. How many drops did you add during the GH test before you saw the color change. IF it is 2 drops (2 degrees) or less you might want to consider using a GH booster. Water without any GH is not good for any plants or animals.

The KH test detect carbonate salts. Which commonly calcium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate, or potassium bicarbonate.Since you water is soft you don't have much calcium or magnesium carbonate. Meaning your water is rich in sodium and potassium bicarbonates.

With you water having significant levels of bicarbonates you PH is likely over 7. Bicarbonates increase PH. If you have trouble comparing color charts you should consider getting a PH probe.It will give you a digital readout of of the PH.

Thanks for the explanation. That does make sense, except that limestone is high in calcium so I would expect the water to be as well. That's what strikes me as weird.

I won't divulge how long it took me to figure out that one drop = one degree.

 

[seangee]

If its a small enough nano and you really need to drop KH...
Boiling the water will do it

 

[StevenF]

hanks for the explanation. That does make sense, except that limestone is high in calcium so I would expect the water to be as well. That's what strikes me as weird.

Yes calcium carbonate has calcium but based on your GH you don't have much if any in your water.

If its a small enough nano and you really need to drop KH...
Boiling the water will do it

Boiling water will reduce CO2 levels in the water. But CO2 is not detected by the KH Test. The KH test only Carbonate SALTs, such as calcium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate. Carbonate salts will not be affected by boiling water will not change the KH. You can test that by adding backing soda to RO water testing it, boiling it, and retesting. and If you wanted to reduce KH add an acid to the water SLOWLY such as vinegar hydrochloric acid. The acid will react with the carbonate salt converting it to acitate or chloride salt. The KH test doesn't detect acitate, chloride or sulfate salts.

 

[StevenF]

Our water supply comes from a mountain creek that flows through several miles of limestone canyon to get here (thus the high KH?) but our town water is always extremely soft.

Ddin't see this earlier. limstone dissolves veery slowly. IF it dissolved rapidly it wouldn't be there. The is limestone in the grand canyon that is 750 million years old and yet it is still there.

limstone only dissolves in acidic water Rain water typically is slightly acidic due to a small amount of CO2 dissolved in it.. And as a result it takes a very long time for any erosion to become visible. For example. your typicall concrete side walk. Calcium carbonate hold the sand and gravel together. year after year of rain exposure has little affect on it.

The mountain stream is equivalent to distilled or RO water sine all the water is from rain or snow with a little CO2 so it is slightly acid and will remove some some of the limestone. But in addition to that many utilities also add bicarbonates to increase the water PH. This is done to prevent pipe corrosion. If the utility doesn't control the PH lead and copper valves in the water could exceed EPA limits. Flint Michigan didn't control PH and lead levels did exceed EPA limits. All because polititicans wanted to save some money.

An unintended effect of the Flint is that many utilities have taken a close look at their pipes and corrosion. Many utilities in the last couple of years have increased the PH and sometimes KHhigher than what it was to further reduce corrosion. Some are also starting to identify lead pipes and replace them.

 

[Essjay]

Carbonate hardness (KH) is also called temporary hardness. GH is permanent hardness.
Google "temporary hardness" and every hit will say it is removed by boiling the water.