Water Conditions (Ph, Gh, Kh)

[Yeoman109]

Hi all,
 
Ive moved house around 5 months ago and am struggling with the water conditions and the fish that ive got.
 
Ive got angelfish, gouramis and paradise fish and after recently testing the water conditions, there not right for the fish im keeping.
 
Nitrite = 0
Ammonia = 0
GH (General Hardness) = 180
KH (Carbonate Hardness) = 240
Nitrate = 0
PH = 8.5
 
I no the PH, GH & KH are all far too high for angelfish !
PH should be around 6.5 - 6.8
GH should be 60
KH should be 80-120
 
I was wondering if there any natural ways to reduce the high levels of the PH, GH or KH or do I need to go down the chemical route ? The water conditions where I live are never going to change so i'm debating whether to constantly treat the water to get it perfect for the stock I've got or change the stock round to suit the water (I've got perfect water conditions for african cichlids). Also taking cost into consideration with stock change or water treatment.
 
I'd appreciate your input !
 
Cheers, Dan

 

[techen]

Big tip, Don't worry about these things. Fish are way to hardy to notice nowadays. So long as you take your time putting them in they'll be fine and will adapt to your water. Bogwood will lower PH though.

 

[Yeoman109]

Big tip, Don't worry about these things. Fish are way to hardy to notice nowadays. So long as you take your time putting them in they'll be fine and will adapt to your water. Bogwood will lower PH though.

 
So the angelfish will be fine with the high general hardness and high carbonate hardness ? and thanks i'll look a lowering the PH as a priority

 

[techen]

Like I said, Playing with PH can be more deadly than just dealing with it. If you get a PH drop or crash the angel and all your fish will just die, So as I said adding some bogwood is a safe way of lowering down abit but everytime you add new water its going to push the PH back up again. Something to think of it.

 

[Essjay]

Adding chemicals will not lower hardness, GH or KH. The way to do that, if you really want to do anything, is by using RO water. Either mix it with your tapwater till you get the readings you want (experiment in a bucket, not the tank) or use all RO with remineralisation salts added to get the readings you want.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The easiest and most controllable way for you to manipulate those parameters is by using reverse osmosis water. You would mix the ro with your tap to lower the pH, GH and KH. Ro water has a pH of 7.0, but has close to 0 GH and KH. I agree that your fish would be a bit more comfortable in a lower pH than you have. They can all do OK at your hardness. If you want to spawn them that could be another thing, especially for the angels. It is more difficult to change your parameters chemically especially with that KH. None of your fish would have a problem with a lower GH/KH. An ro unit costs up front and will need components changed once a year or so, which means it requires spending something. The more you need, the more you spend.
 
I lower pH using muriatic acid, I do not suggest that for your situation. My tap is way softer and way more acid than yours and I am looking to have tanks anywhere from 4.2 to 6.0 pH with low GH and KH. I also use ro/di (ro that is also deionized) to help in those situations. Trust me when I tell you its way more work and chemistry than most folks want or need to do. My portable 3 stage ro/di unit which can make about 40 gals in 24 hours (but is rated at 75 gpd) cost me about $100.
 
Also, there is a nice article on paradise fish here you might enjoy reading http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/macropodus-opercularis and some good information on them here as well http/fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html

 

[Yeoman109]

Thanks for all the replies, have'nt checked in on here in a while ! I debated changing the stock to african cichlids but after all the comments im guna keep it how it is, i dont want to get rid of all my angels anyway ! I realise i have too many angels and after speaking to my local fish shop im going to take some of them and the gouramis back and hopefully get some rams ! At the moment i have 6 angels but im not sure whether to reduce the number to 3, 2 or 1 ? As i said im looking to get some rams, not sure what ones yet and maybe a pair of apistogrammas. Also, i would live some live plants but will they be alright with my water conditions ?
 
Thanks, Dan

 

[Essjay]

There are 2 species of rams.
Bolivian rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus) would be the one to go for. They would be OK at higher pH, GH up to about 215ppm and need the same temperatures as your other fish.
The other species, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, should be avoided as they need low pH, low GH and high temperatures. You'll find this species labelled as rams, blue rams, electric blue rams, german blue rams, gold rams, balloon rams, and so on. If the label doesn't say bolivian, don't get them.
 
As for apistogrammas, the ones you'll most likely find are cockatoos (A cacatuoides) and A agassizi. Of these, cockatoos will cope with your water unless they are wild caught, but they are unlikely to be able to breed successfully.

 

[Yeoman109]

Ok thanks a lot i'll have a look into those !