Water changes

[Elisabeth83]

I've been thinking about this today...you know how you read that a stable ph is better than a fluctuating one? Well in some of my tanks I keep clay pots as well as wood which both are said to lower ph. My tap water has pretty high ph (8.5) so when doing water changes in the tanks with the wood and clay pots arn't I making the ph fluctuate too much? I try and do smaller water changes more frequently but sometimes on the smaller tanks it's easy to syphon out 40-50% before you realize how much you've taken out eg: while doing gravel vacs etc. If your ph is say 7.0 before the water change and you end up doing a 50% water change and your tap water is like mine 8.5 will it cause your ph to go up? If so how long does it take for it to balance back out? Is this a huge stress on fish?

Also in my tanks that don't have any wood or clay pots when I measure the ph they always come out at around 7.4-7.6 how does that work when the tap water is 8.5?
Is it the fish waste or something that brings the ph down? maybe the water conditioner does something?

Have I asked enough questions?

 

[rdd1952]

Have you tested your KH? Generally a high pH and high KH go hand in hand but it sounds as if you KH is low since you pH is droppong from 8.5 to 7.4 or so. There are a couple ways to buffer your pH (and raise your KH) such as adding baking soda to the water or putting a small amount of cruched coral or coral sand in a filter pack or stocking in the tank. I use the crucked coral which I just put in the filter pack on the tanks with HOB filter and have in a filter pack hanging inside the tank on my 75 gallon which has canister filters. Be advised that it doesn't take much of either to make a change so go slowly with very small quantities at first.

In the mean time, to avoid creating too much of a pH change during water changes, you should continue with the smaller changes. On the small tanks, you could maybe use a mixture of tap water and bottled water to lower the pH of the water you are adding. That will be expensive though. You could also try to set up a drop system to slowly drip the water back in after you have finished syphoning. that would stretch the pH change out over a longer period of time. The down side to that is that if you syphon down low enough that you have to unplug your heater and filter, it will mean they are off for a much longer period of time and you will be more apt to forget to start them back.

 

[tttnjfttt]

In the smaller tanks, why not add back in some of the water you siphoned out? By scooping it out of the top of the bucket, you should avoid re-introducing the waste, but would still get to clean the gravel as throughly as you want.

 

[annka5]

I think you must have a low KH also.
I would also be incredibly unwilling to use chemicals to alter PH, due to the instability this can cause.
You can try leaving the water overnight - i.e. preparing the new water for the tank the day before you do a water change. Am not sure WHY this should work (and have never tried it!!), but some people swear it does change the PH of the water you're adding.
Fish' metabolic processes and also the breakdown of ammonia and nitrite do increase the acidity of water, but to be fair, I can't see how that would cause such a huge swing.
Tank decor, aside from the pots and wood? Could it be that?

 

[Elisabeth83]

Yes the water here in Sweden is very soft..I think around 3-4 KH. I was talking with a guy at a fish store I frequent and he said he adds half a teaspoon of salt per 10 litres (2.5 gallons?) of water to harden the water. He said he's been doing that for 30 years. Maybe I should start doing that too to equal things out a bit?

Well if I just do smaller water changes every couple of days instead of say bigger ones the ph wont really be affected right? I'd rather do that than have to buy a lot of buckets to let the water sit overnight or buy special water considering I'm here in Sweden and things are EXPENSIVE even bottled water.

I'd rather not mess with anything either by adding baking soda or crushed coral.

So what does all this mean high ph and low kh??

 

[rdd1952]

Small more frequent water changes would definitely help. That way the pH shouldn't drop as much between water changes. I had also though about letting some water stand for a day or so to see if the pH dropped. If you have a place to do it, you could set up a tub or bucket to let the water stand and maybe enve put a piece of driftwood in it to push the pH down to what your tanks are. It is very rare to find water with a high pH but low KH. Generally if the pH is high the water will be hard. I suppose you could try adding salt depending on what type fish you have. Just keep in mind that you can't use salt with scaleless fish like corys. As a general rule though, I'm not an advocate for adding anything to the tank although I do use the small amount of crushed coral.

 

[Elisabeth83]

I'll start doing smaller more frequent water changes then. I heard it's actually great for your fish to change 10-15% of water everyday anyways? Although I wont be doing it everyday I'll probably do 25% water changes 3 times a week or something.

I'll leave a bucket of water out tonight with a piece of wood in it and test it tomorrow.

Total hardness that is KH right or is it GH? On stockholms water information website it says Total Hardness (DH) 4.

I'm just confused as you say hard water and high ph go hand in hand..what's going on with Swedens water then? How does that work?

I feel like I am in chemistry or biology class again

edit: was just reading about stockholms water and when the water comes in it's 7.1 but they treat it to be 8.5 to ensure it's quality while running through the pipes to homes.

 

[tttnjfttt]

10-15% weekly is what is recomended. I would think it would be better to either let the water sit, or do small water chages putting back some of the removed water if you get carried away.

Looking at the fish you have, i would say it is better to leave the KH alone so your pH will stay around 7-7.4. That is actually the ideal range.

 

[Elisabeth83]

10-15% weekly is what is recomended. I would think it would be better to either let the water sit, or do small water chages putting back some of the removed water if you get carried away.

[snapback]876421[/snapback]​

That really depends on what type of fish you keep though. Like me I've got fish who are sensitive to poor water quality and it's recommended to do small frequent water changes. I don't think my rams or licorice gouramis would be happy with only a 10-15% water change weekly.

I just tested 2 of my tanks and got back basically the same results

NitrAte - 5-10
NitrIte - 0
GH - 4-5
KH - 5-6
PH 7.5-8.0

I wish I could have more accurate results but I only have the test strips and with having to use a color scale it's hard to differentiate between the colors.

I don't think I should really worry about it though? I mean I've been doing water changes for a year without even worrying about Ph, Kh or Gh and my fish seem ok Maybe from now on though I'll try to do more frequent smaller water changes just to be sure the Ph doesn't change too much.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Actually, the sensitive to bad water is more with ammonia and nitrite. How much do your nitrates change over the course of a week? If you want to be very technical, your goal is to remove the nitrates produced over the week. Pay attention to this and let this be the judge of how often you need to be doing them.

As for the pH, my water comes out of the tap at 9+, completely off the chart. My KH is low, and my water drops to 7.8-8. I do 25% water changes, even in my 10 gal, and add the water back straight out of the tap. I have never had any trouble because of my pH (my current fish are african cichlids, tiger babs, zebra danios, and bettas).

 

[Elisabeth83]

When I test my water the nitrAtes have always been around 10. For the past 9-10 months I've always tried to do 2 25% water changes weekly. Like I said in my first post though sometimes I'll end up doing a 40-50% water change on the smaller tanks. I've never really thought it mattered all that much but maybe it does?

There are some people who say that water doesn't need to be changed but every 2 weeks to a month and there are some that say doing smaller frequent water changes are better. I've always been one for smaller frequent water changes. I guess each to their own and you do what works for you. That all depends on a bunch of other stuff to though. I know some more experienced fish keepers dont ever do gravel vacs and kind of have a self-sustaining fish tank.

I'm trying to get my head around the workings of ph, kh and gh but it's doing my head in

edit: Should I worry about this or not? Even though my tap waters pH is 8.5 my aquariums ph have never read that high. Even when I do bigger water changes my fish don't seem to have a problem with it

 

[simonbrown403]

I'de been exsplaning this PH, tap water thing to my dad the other day, becarse he's been having problems with PH swings and deaths.

I think its one of the most common carse of fishie fatalitys.
Most people do a 25% water change every 2weeks, in between water changes organic and carbonic acids build up and lowering the PH.
Then that fortnightly water change comes around again and hay presto the PH is back up again.
just thing of the stress this is carsing the fish over time.

I do a water change every other day on my small tanks, and every week on the large ones.

Try syphoning the water though a peice of stocken then you can add it back crud free.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Point blank, don't worry. I have done 33% changes after illness, ect. and my fish always have handled it fine (pH changes from 9+ to 8 which is really a 10x's larger change in the pH than what your fish go through)

 

[Elisabeth83]

So bascially fish can handle bigger water changes even if the pH flucuates somewhat? I guess everyone must really go through this with keeping fish unless you are living in the perfect location with perfect pH, kH etc

I've been told by fishkeepers here that Sweden actually has great water for keeping fish in. I think maybe I'm worried for nothing but when I get something in my mind I've got to find it out and find it out now so I can relax Seriously I wanted to watch a movie tonight and instead I've sat here the whole night reading all about water quality and what everything means. I still don't understand it all

 

[tttnjfttt]

The water that you leave in your tank will hlep minimize the ph difference. I rarely do larger than 25% (never on a regular basis, only occasionally after medicating them or after a death). When I have checked my pH afterwards, it had maybe changed .2

people tend to get into KH and GH when they are into breeding, or when they are trying to mimick an environment, like with African Cichlids.