Water Changes With Real Plants

[mitch70]

I have recently delved into the mysterious world of the planted tank - 

 I have a Roma 240 Litre (about 55 uk gallons)- and am certainly very low tech, my lighting works out at about 1.5 watts per gallon.
 
I have 2 large java ferns attached to bog wood and 1 anubias barteri attached to a rock. I have not yet gone down the ferts route as I am off on holiday in approx 12 days and will be away for a week (Can't trust my tank sitter to dose properly ) when I return I will purchase some liquid ferts.
 
 
Now for the question, will I keep my water changes at once per week changing approx 25% of the water? and do I vacuum the gravel as much?
 
Or do I change the water less and vacuum less to ensure the plants are getting the benefits of the nutrients from the fish waste?
 
 
I know this is probably a very basic question but am keen to get this right, if I keep them alive I am looking to upgrade my lighting and try the next level.
 
I never thought plants would be so interesting or addictive - I could quickly become an addict
 
Thank you in advance

 

[Sickbound]

I just treat my tank like normal. Although I do use ferts like API Leaf Zone, and another bottle that is micro nutrients. I was doing CO2 but that gets expensive with a 72 gallon. 
Basically, just give your plants macro and micro nutrients and you'll be fine. Just be careful putting water into the tank. I've destroyed an anubius that way.
Also API Root Tabs works really well for plants that are in the substrate. 

 

[levahe]

I like to keep my planted tanks very clean and vacuum the substrate weekly to avoid a build up of organic matter that if left, can create water quality issues and ultimately algae. Clean tank + plenty of ferts + weekly water changes = happy plants and fish!

 

[Zante]

I like to keep my planted tanks very clean and vacuum the substrate weekly to avoid a build up of organic matter that if left, can create water quality issues and ultimately algae. Clean tank + plenty of ferts + weekly water changes = happy plants and fish!

 
You know... that is exactly the opposite of what Diana Walstad says. Unless you have an undergravel filter, you should vacuum as little as possible and leave the organic mulm in the gravel. Sure, initially you will have algae issues, but that won't harm the fish, and in time you will find a new balance in the aquarium.
 
I have experimented myself with her book in hand, and I have an 80 litre aquarium in which I haven't done a water change since the beginning of April, and which is filterless since the beginning of June, with a pair of ellioti cichlids which have spawned. Cichlids usually nees a few "false starts" to get it right. This is their first clutch and the fry are growing very well.
 
Sure the tank has loads of algae, and it's not pretty to see (it's just an experiment) but the algae are not expanding, and they have reached a balance with nutrients and plants. If I were to make water changes without vacuuming the gravel it would clear up in no time.
 
"Ecology of the planted aquariums" is a book I'd suggest to ANYONE who has an aquarium.
http/www.amazon.co.uk/Ecology-Planted-Aquarium-Practical-Scientific/dp/0967377366/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375466974&sr=8-1&keywords=ecology+planted+aquarium

 

[levahe]

A walstad style tank is a whole different ball game to a regular planted tank, not even close. If the OP had enquired about a walstad tank I would have given a different set of answers

 

[Zante]

I'm not talking of a Walstad tank, I'm talking of a normal gravel tank.
 
I'd have to look it up now, but it was a matter of having a partially anoxic substrate, which helps the plants absorb through the roots. Vacuumed gravel has too much circulation and there is too much oxygen circulating in the plant roots.

Also my tank, that I brought as an example, is not a Walstad tank. It has fine gravel (not sand) on the bottom, and that is all.

 

[levahe]

Walstads methods are proven but for me I see very little point in it all when you can achieve arguably better results (clean algae free tank) by simply keeping the tank clean, doing water changes and adding fertilisers. It seems like the only benefit is to save money on fertilisers, which cost very little so in my opinion is pointless.

 

[Zante]

Conditions are better for plants. They are part of the aquarium as much as the fish, and well oxygentared gravel is not as good as "dirty" gravel for them. It's not a question of saving in fertilizers, it's a question of giving better conditions for the plants, not only for the fish.

 

[mitch70]

Slightly confused now, none of my plants are actually in the gravel, they are attached to wood or rock does this make a difference? also I am due to do my weekly water change on wednesday 7th august, them I am away on holiday for a week from the 13th and was going to do another water change before I went on the 12th.
 
Should I just wait and do a water change on the 12th and miss the one on the 7th? 
 
I have a BN pleco in but he only about 1.5 inches so not too messy yet
 
Again thankyou for replying.

 

[Zante]

Slightly confused now, none of my plants are actually in the gravel, they are attached to wood or rock does this make a difference?

 
Ah, sorry, my bad... I assumed plants rooted in the gravel.
 
 

also I am due to do my weekly water change on wednesday 7th august, them I am away on holiday for a week from the 13th and was going to do another water change before I went on the 12th.
 
Should I just wait and do a water change on the 12th and miss the one on the 7th? 
 
I have a BN pleco in but he only about 1.5 inches so not too messy yet
 
Again thankyou for replying.

 
I would keep up the water changes as normal. Plants make better water quality and are good filters, but that means a better quality of water. Yes, you could thin out the water changes, but if it isn't too much hassle I'd keep up with them.

 

[mitch70]

Thankyou for the quick response

 

[levahe]

Conditions are better for plants. They are part of the aquarium as much as the fish, and well oxygentared gravel is not as good as "dirty" gravel for them. It's not a question of saving in fertilizers, it's a question of giving better conditions for the plants, not only for the fish.

Sorry to carry this on lol but I don't understand your post, it doesnt make sense to me ?

Plant roots release oxygen which in turn promotes the growth of nitrifiying bacteria which benefits the health of the whole of the tank.
The only reason someone would let their substrate accumulate detritus and food is to provide a nutrients source for their plants. That build up can create water quality issues and algae.
Believe me i have tried many different types of planted tanks and the easiest and most 'fool proof' way is by keeping the tank clean, waterchanges and dosing ferts.
Most people want a display tank that looks nice, this is the easiest way to achieve that. The walstad style tank is more of a science project for someone to enjoy and by their very nature don't look as clean and nice (IMO)

 

[Zante]

Sorry to carry this on lol but I don't understand your post, it doesnt make sense to me ?

Plant roots release oxygen which in turn promotes the growth of nitrifiying bacteria which benefits the health of the whole of the tank.
The only reason someone would let their substrate accumulate detritus and food is to provide a nutrients source for their plants. That build up can create water quality issues and algae.
Believe me i have tried many different types of planted tanks and the easiest and most 'fool proof' way is by keeping the tank clean, waterchanges and dosing ferts.
Most people want a display tank that looks nice, this is the easiest way to achieve that. The walstad style tank is more of a science project for someone to enjoy and by their very nature don't look as clean and nice (IMO)
 

 
Plant roots release oxygen to transform dissolved minerals in forms that can be used by the plants themselves. The plants release through the roots only what they need for themselves, hardly anything is left over for bacteria.
 
Sure, it is the "easiest" to achieve, but not to maintain.
 
Again, I am not talking about walstad tanks, but talking about applying the knowledge aquired by studying her books.
 
Unfortunately I don't have access to the book for a while, I have lent it to a fellow aquarist, but I do advise you to read it.

 

[levahe]

Sorry to carry this on lol but I don't understand your post, it doesnt make sense to me ?
Plant roots release oxygen which in turn promotes the growth of nitrifiying bacteria which benefits the health of the whole of the tank.
The only reason someone would let their substrate accumulate detritus and food is to provide a nutrients source for their plants. That build up can create water quality issues and algae.
Believe me i have tried many different types of planted tanks and the easiest and most 'fool proof' way is by keeping the tank clean, waterchanges and dosing ferts.
Most people want a display tank that looks nice, this is the easiest way to achieve that. The walstad style tank is more of a science project for someone to enjoy and by their very nature don't look as clean and nice (IMO)

 
Plant roots release oxygen to transform dissolved minerals in forms that can be used by the plants themselves. The plants release through the roots only what they need for themselves, hardly anything is left over for bacteria.
 
Sure, it is the "easiest" to achieve, but not to maintain.
 
Again, I am not talking about walstad tanks, but talking about applying the knowledge aquired by studying her books.
 
Unfortunately I don't have access to the book for a while, I have lent it to a fellow aquarist, but I do advise you to read it.

Its the bacteria that breaks down the organics and so on into products that the plants use, and that process couldn't happen without oxygen. Your thoughts on the subject are heavily influenced by the walstad method and there is nothing wrong with that, but there are other methods as well that work. Far simpler and effective methods. I totally accept the walstad method of planted tanks but I would never waste my time doing one that way because I have found a far simpler way of achieving a successful planted tank! and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone either for that reason

 

[snazy]

To answer mitch70's question first, 2 java ferns and an anubias will hardly make a difference to the water quality so I'd go on with the water changes as usual.
 

Most people want a display tank that looks nice, this is the easiest way to achieve that. The walstad style tank is more of a science project for someone to enjoy and by their very nature don't look as clean and nice (IMO)   
 

       

 I totally accept the walstad method of planted tanks but I would never waste my time doing one that way because I have found a far simpler way of achieving a successful planted tank! and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone either for that reason     
 

     
 

Walstads methods are proven but for me I see very little point in it all when you can achieve arguably better results (clean algae free tank) by simply keeping the tank clean, doing water changes and adding fertilisers. It seems like the only benefit is to save money on fertilisers, which cost very little so in my opinion is pointless.  
 

        
 
I totally disagree with your comments above levahe. What's more simple than having a tank you don't really need to dose with anything and still grow healthy plants, Free of algae unlike what you seem to presume for some unknown reason above in relation to Walstad tanks.
 
Here are my two Walstad tanks below and neither has algae, looks dirty or anything of the above you mentioned and maintenace and keep up is easier than any other planted tank I've had before. The aquascape was entirely my own doing, so you can't discredit the results for that and I is nothing fancy but that depends on what one wants. Unfortunately I trimmed the first tank the other day, so not in its best looks. Pic is from today.
 

 

And before you mention it, water is darker because I put alder cones in all tanks.