Wasting And Dying Fish In Tank At Work

[BeckyCats]

First of all, I want to say that the aquarium I am about to describe is NOT mine and it is not my responsibility. It is the aquarium in the lobby where I work. I take an interest because there are living animals involved and I think they need help and I would like to do what I can. That said, I am NOT encouraged to take care of the fish (except as occasional vacation backup). I have inserted myself several times to do water changes because I do not think they are done often enough, but I have been told that my involvement with the fish is frowned upon, it not being what I am paid to do. So, please, before anyone tell me I need to do water changes every day, understand that this is not possible without possibly losing my job. My hope is that you good folks here will be able to help me figure out what the problem is with this tank so that I can give good advice to the person who is responsible for the fish. So, to the problem at hand:
 
It is a 30 gallon with 2 white skirt tetras, 4 black skirt tetras, 10 neon tetras, and a platy.
 
Deceased residents are: 2 mollies (both wasted away); 3 white skirt tetras (all wasted away); 2 plecos (both died from unknown causes about a month apart). These deaths occurred over about 9 or 10 months.
 
There were 2 cases of ick a few months apart that were cleared up (seemingly) with medicines. Not long afterwards, the first molly began wasting away. His spine also became oddly bent looking and his lips became enlarged (he looked like he had collagen injections). Then the female became ill (developed a white fuzzy patch on her head) and wasted away. They both died on the same day.
 
After that, one fish at a time just started wasting away, getting thinner and thinner until they died. The third white skirt tetra just died yesterday and another looks very thin already.
 
What the heck could be happening? Is there any medication for this? Two rounds of different antibiotics were tried (consecutively, not concurrently) months ago (one gram negative and one gram positive) but have not seemed to help.
 
Besides wasting, another common symptom is that the fish just hang out listlessly in the water. Often they hide.
 
Could it be TB? Columnaris? If the later, why didn't medicating the tank help? If the former, can anything be done? Should the sick looking ones be euthanized in hopes of saving the rest or is it too late?
 
The current stats as of today are:
Nitrate 20ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Ammonia 0ppm
pH 7.2
 
Thank you.
 

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Can we have a little bit more info? Now was this tank started? Did they do a fish in cycle if fishless cycle? What is the temp of the tank? What is the decor and substrate? Filter? Air stone? Are they eating at all and what type of food and how often? Have you noticed any white stringy looking poo? Just from the wasting away I'd say either they aren't eating or they could have internal parasites. White stringy poo is a sign of parasites.

 

[Akasha72]

could be internal worms. As far as I'm aware it can be passed from fish to fish via them 'mouthing' poop. If it were me I'd add a wormer and then be ready to suck out what ever comes away from them asap. I completely understand though that this is a difficult situation but someone needs to take responsibility for these animals. I would stand up for them. Tell your boss that you care about animal welfare and you are concerned that the fish are ill and arn't getting the proper care. Ask if you can attend to them during your break or stay back for half an hour after your contracted hours. Your boss needs a valid reason to end your employment and I very much doubt caring about the work fish tank and asking to help sick animals is a good enough reason to sack you
 
Keep us posted on how things go. Best of luck

 

[BeckyCats]

I'm pretty sure they cycled the tank with fish (the platy that it is in there, I believe). That was more than a year ago I think. As to the other questions:
Temp: 78 F
Decor & Substrate: gravel and a few live plants (that I brought in). Mostly anubias but also some water sprite and wysteria that are trying to grow. There is also an artificial piece of driftwood (made for aquariums). There are a good number of hiding places for the fish.
Filter is a fluval brand. It has charcoal, a sponge filter, and biomedia.
There is an air stone as well.
 
I have not seen any long stringy poops. They eat once a day. They are fed by an automatic feeder so that they can eat on weekends and holidays even when people are not here. The feeder is full of food. I have seen them eating, even the skinny ones.
 
Should I treat for parasites just in case? I know it is supposed to be bad to treat things unless you know what it is. Is that just for antibiotics or does it apply to all medicines?

 

[Byron]

I would not jump to the conclusion it is a pathogen/parasite without dealing with water issues which are far more likely to be the issue.  Poor water (which this tank obviously contains, no fault of yours) is a major cause of stress which is 95% of all health problems.
 
Fish used to cycle a tank are affected even if they live through it, and down the road succumb to something, and always have a shortened lifespan as a result of the cycling.  These fish are probably being overfed.  Automatic feeders should never be used when someone is around to feed them; they may dump in too much food, and every day feeding is not necessary (except for fry growing).  Better for the fish's health to miss a day here and there than to be always supplied with food.  At the very least, more food in the fish means that much more waste in the water, so poorer water quality.  But the more a fish eats, the higher the metabolism, which is another drain on the fish and the water quality.
 
Medications that are chemical, antibiotic, and similar are always dangerous because they get inside fish, and this is not so bad if they are the best treatment but if not, it can only make things worse for the fish.  It is no issue to feed crushed peas in case of intestinal problems as this is just natural food, but as soon as you move to drug-type, salt, etc, you are affecting the environment and the fish's physiology in usually a major way.
 
To be honest, what this tank really needs is a major water change, as much as 75-80%, with a good substrate clean during, and a filter rinse.  I understand the issues here with your position; but I am simply stating the best treatment.  Whenever I see something in any of my tanks, whatever it is and especially if I don't know precisely, I do a major water change.  Sometimes that alone is sufficient.  If this is done, be aware of the possible pH shift; the tank may have a lower pH than the source water.
 
Mollies were mentioned previously, and the symptoms described may well be due to the GH and pH of this water.  A pH of 7.2 is basic (not acidic) but barely, and mollies must have moderately hard or harder water and with a higher pH to be at their best.  Salt is not the answer, hard minerals (calcium and magnesium) are.  No idea of the GH, but with a pH this low I would suspect the GH may not be high enough for mollies (and perhaps the other livebearers too).
 
Byron.

 

[BeckyCats]

I have "sneaked" in about one water change a month so far this year (after hours of course). I do gravel vacuuming while I do this. The water quality has improved since I started doing this (about 8 months ago). I was hoping that someone else would also do a once-per-month water change, thereby giving the fish a water change every 2 weeks, but it is not happening that way. Once a month is better than what was happening last year though, which is none at all. When I do water changes, I change about 80% of the water each time. I do such a major one because I know it is only getting done once per month. I have also changed out all of the filter media (being careful to transition the biomedia of course, so that the old had time to populate the new). The old sponge was so disgusting I can't even begin to talk about it. Now, when I do the monthly water change, I rinse all of the filter media in the old tank water so that the filter will stay cleaner.
 
The original platy actually seems to be the healthiest of the bunch (although I have no doubt that his internal organs have been damaged from having to cycle the tank and live in polluted waters). Maybe platys are hardier fish, I don't know. The tetras all seem off however. It is very frustrating to watch one after another get thinner and thinner and then just die.
 
The black skirts and neons were added AFTER I started doing monthly water changes, so they were never subjected to the truly horrific conditions that the tank was under before this year. If any of them start getting sick like this, I will know it is disease and not merely water quality, won't I? Don't lots of people do monthly water changes and not have fish dying every month? (I ask this question sincerely because I personally would not know since my only other experience are my tanks at home which get water changes every week.)

 

[Byron]

I should clarify what I said previously.  I am not discounting a disease of some type, but merely pointing out that these tend to be more likely from poor water quality/management which is a major stress factor.  There are many factors in an aquarium, though most tend to be connected somehow with the water.  Some introduced pathogen may be present now that might not have taken hold with better water conditions.  All of us know this is not your fault.
 
There are those who say they do few if any water changes.  But we cannot possibly conclude their fish are truly healthy, or would not be in better health if water changes were more frequent and substantial.  The factual evidence of the benefits of regular and significant water changes cannot be ignored.  The attitude of those who are willing to provide the barest minimum of proper maintenance and assume because the fish live they must be right defies logic.  Our goal as aquarists should be to do all we can to improve conditions, not look for the minimum.  Sadlly, there are people in this world who view any living creature as expendable.
 
Byron.