Very Worried, Need Advice

[MrCashew]

Hey guys
I have a male veil tail betta who up until now has been very energetic and responsive, having reached maturity a month ago. He is my first betta so I'm fairly new to keeping them.
I have had him in a 14L community tank with a few other small fish, and for a while i had been keeping my eye on a small white mark on his head. I saw no change until I came back from a two week holiday three days ago.
While I was away, I had my uncle feed him every second day with bloodworms only, and monitor the pH. He did let it get quite high, up to 7.4, but corrected it when i asked him. After taking a water sample to the pet shop yesterday I was told that my ammonia was zero and everything else was good.
When I came home, he looked like this:

He had fungus on his head, fin, and lip, and a small ulcer above his lip on one side.
I immediately treated him with a fungus multicure, at which point he started to look really poorly and lacked energy. I rushed out to get a new tank to use as a hospital tank. it is a triple tank, and each section has a 3L capacity (so the tank he is in is 3L only).
In it i put a heater (set at 26 degrees), an air stone and a plant from his original tank. I even put the UV light over the new tank for him. Since yesterday I have been treating him with both fungus cure and an antibacterial especially for bettas.
The fungus seems to have improved, however he is extremely lethargic and depressed looking, lying around the tank, sometimes on his side, and not beating his pectoral fins. I put the other fish in the adjoining tanks so he could see them, and while he perked up a little, he now seems to have worsened and his eyes have become cloudy. I took the light away so it doesn't hurt his eyes but now I don't know what else to do.
Should i be treating him in a bigger tank? He seems to have trouble moving in this one, he's very weak. Should i put him back with the other fish? Should I treat him with antibiotics as well?
Please help?

 

[Red Betta]

yes, u should treat him with antibiotics and do not put him back with the other fish because they will pick on him because he is weak , i do know of another treatment witch can be incredibly helpful or incredibly bad it is dissolving sea salt into the water for a 3 litre tank id say about a teaspoon of it with out treatment he doesnt have a very good chance. i am not a expert so ask lilfishie or sausagewinkle first they will know what to do. good luck

 

[MrCashew]

yes, u should treat him with antibiotics and do not put him back with the other fish because they will pick on him because he is weak , i do know of another treatment witch can be incredibly helpful or incredibly bad it is dissolving sea salt into the water for a 3 litre tank id say about a teaspoon of it with out treatment he doesnt have a very good chance. i am not a expert so ask lilfishie or sausagewinkle first they will know what to do. good luck

Thanks for that I forgot to mention that I also put salt in there on my uncle's advice to reduce stress. He seems to have perked up a little this afternoon and was moving around last time i checked. his eyes are still cloudy tho, and he keeps trying to run into the glass

 

[onidrase]

Adding salt will not reduce stress, but will increase it. The only time salt should be present in a tank is if you're using a salt bath treatment to kill common fungal infections like ich. You definitely have a lot of medications (And salt!) in that tank water, which would explain why it's so lethargic. It's not a good thing. It seems to me like it's something along the lines or mouth rot (which is a bacterial infection)

If I read this correctly, you're treating for fungus, bacteria, and salt bath, all of which, even in minor doses, is stressful to fish. I'd actually advise you do a very very big water change, as close to 100% as possible, and treat the fish for whatever you can get it diagnosed with. I wouldn't say this is fungus, I'd say it's bacteria, but I'm not a huge expert on diagnosing symptoms. However, IMO, having all those medicines in that tank is more harmful than whatever affliction it may have.

What needs to be mentioned, is unfortunately, medications for fish are not like medications for humans. Most fish medications are pumped with chemicals like malachite green and copper, to name a few, which will constantly bring pain and stress to fish being treated, rather than comfort and relief. The chemicals are there to destroy the sickness, and in turn, they're also afflicting the fish present in the tank. It's unsafe to have so many chemicals in the tank, because it hurts the fish as well as the ailment. Having medications in a tank long term will kill the fish, as well as the beneficial bacteria in your filter, so ultimately, they should be used as a last resort.

Keeping the water clean and steady and letting the fishes immune system try and take care of it is much more healthy, if the ailment is still small and hardly noticable.

 

[MrCashew]

Adding salt will not reduce stress, but will increase it. The only time salt should be present in a tank is if you're using a salt bath treatment to kill common fungal infections like ich. You definitely have a lot of medications (And salt!) in that tank water, which would explain why it's so lethargic. It's not a good thing. It seems to me like it's something along the lines or mouth rot (which is a bacterial infection)

If I read this correctly, you're treating for fungus, bacteria, and salt bath, all of which, even in minor doses, is stressful to fish. I'd actually advise you do a very very big water change, as close to 100% as possible, and treat the fish for whatever you can get it diagnosed with. I wouldn't say this is fungus, I'd say it's bacteria, but I'm not a huge expert on diagnosing symptoms. However, IMO, having all those medicines in that tank is more harmful than whatever affliction it may have.

What needs to be mentioned, is unfortunately, medications for fish are not like medications for humans. Most fish medications are pumped with chemicals like malachite green and copper, to name a few, which will constantly bring pain and stress to fish being treated, rather than comfort and relief. The chemicals are there to destroy the sickness, and in turn, they're also afflicting the fish present in the tank. It's unsafe to have so many chemicals in the tank, because it hurts the fish as well as the ailment. Having medications in a tank long term will kill the fish, as well as the beneficial bacteria in your filter, so ultimately, they should be used as a last resort.

Keeping the water clean and steady and letting the fishes immune system try and take care of it is much more healthy, if the ailment is still small and hardly noticable.

Okay thanks, i'll put him in a clean tank for the night and see how he goes. He did seem to be more relaxed when i briefly transferred him to another tank while i did a water change, so maybe i'll try that and see how he is tomorrow.

 

[Liquid skills]

yeh meds are good i dont use salt for mine i just dont like it i use meds

this is the one that i use - waterlife protazien whitespot and fungal treatment

 

[sausagewinkle]

Aquarium salt is actually, in my knowledge, a general tonic to bettas. I use it on mine when they are looking a little 'tatty'. I dont use it with meds though.

Where in the world are you MrCashew??

I swear by waterlife products, always having myaxzin and protozin in my cupboard. Protozin covers fungus.

I would suggest maybe trying to move him to a larger tank, even a container of some sort, its easier to keep the water cleaner and also measure out for treatments.

Don't use more than 1 treatment at a time, as mentioned they can sometimes do more harm than good.


Keep him isolated though, dont add the other fish back with him.

im no expert im afraid, but thats what i would do.

Good luck with him

 

[MrCashew]

Aquarium salt is actually, in my knowledge, a general tonic to bettas. I use it on mine when they are looking a little 'tatty'. I dont use it with meds though.

Where in the world are you MrCashew??

I swear by waterlife products, always having myaxzin and protozin in my cupboard. Protozin covers fungus.

I would suggest maybe trying to move him to a larger tank, even a container of some sort, its easier to keep the water cleaner and also measure out for treatments.

Don't use more than 1 treatment at a time, as mentioned they can sometimes do more harm than good.


Keep him isolated though, dont add the other fish back with him.

im no expert im afraid, but thats what i would do.

Good luck with him

Yeah the salt i have is uniodised sea salt that is recommended as a general preventative for fungus. there is a small amount in the tank now, and i transferred him back to the main 14L tank on his own. its all clean except for a small amount of antibacterial treatment which is only natural malleluca extract which is recommended for them to aid healing. he's had the fungal treatment for three days now anyway so i'm hoping his immune system can do the rest. Also I am in australia. most of the products i use are by aqua master or aqua one. the antibacterial is by API. currently he is swimming around the bigger tank, but still not responding to the mirror. his eyes are still cloudy too, and his gills a little swollen i'm not going to try feeding him for a while.

thanks

 

[MrCashew]

Okay so this morning the fungus seems to have cleared up totally and his eyes are a lot less cloudy but he's still very dull and his scales are looking strangely defined. Could this be leading to raised scales? Has anyone seen this before? As you can see his fins and tail are also clamped and he's not moving them from that position even when he swims up for air. The ulcer above his lip hasn't totally gone but i can't see any other issues on the outside. could it just be skin damage from the fungal treatment? is there any way to help that?

 

[Dieses Madchen]

I'm not seeing a fungus on him....I'm seeing Ich, which is a parasite. What meds are you using to treat him? Have up increased the temperature of the tank?

 

[MrCashew]

Are you sure thats ich? its looks to me like all his scales are slightly raised from the skin. this is on *every* scale. oh he's also showing a horizontal white band that i've never seen before. is this bad? incidentally the water temperature has been quite high all night, by accident, but i'm not treating him for ich or any fungus right now, like i said that is gone. this is in reference to the last photo ^^, he no longer looks like the first two.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Hmmm I do not know.... I'm sorry

 

[MrCashew]

its okay. i think i might just take him to a fish expert to examine in person. i'll let you know what he says if i can get hold of him today.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

I hope everything works out for you. Just keep treating him and keep his water clean.

 

[Red Betta]

are the other fish harassing him?