Very sick Gourami

[harryg]

Hi,

I havea problem with my tropical fish. On average one fish will die every 10-14days. So far I have lost 3 Dwarf Gourami, 3 Puffers, 2 Hatchet Fish and a Cory. The all exhibit similar illnesses.

Phase
1: Slow swimming and not eating.
2. Swollen lower abomen.
3. Difficulty in getting off the tank bottom, as if the can't go float up without using it's tail fin.
4. Gasping a bit for air.
5. Death
6. On examination they all seem to have a dark shaded patch where the abdomen is swollen.

Been to 4 different locat TFS they think its a bacterial infection so I have treated the fish with off the shelf treatments. Water change 33% once per week. Tested all OK.

Please help!

 

[WILDER]

Need to no water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,and ph, how many gallons is the tank, what do you feed the fish, sounds like swimbladder problems, also what does it look like when the fish goes to the toilet, dark patches on the belly can you describe it abit more, as dark patches can indicates a bacterial infection, any signs of and flicking and rubbing against objects, can also get heavy breahing with bactrial infections,

 

[WILDER]

Swim Bladder Disorder



The Swim bladder is a gas-filled sac located inside the fish’s body cavity just above most of the other internal organs. This sac is what gives the fish buoyancy and controls equilibrium. The amount of gas in this sac changes as the fish rises and sinks in the water, enabling it to swim, hover and move in the water. Without the use of the Swim-bladder organ a fish is unable to control it's own movements.



Symptoms:

Fish with a swim bladder disorder appear to have an abnormal swimming pattern, usually with their tail end up. They also appear to have difficulty maintaining equilibrium. They may even float upside down or appear to be stuck at the surface of the water, being unable to swim down, or they may lie on the bottom, unable to rise. Fish with a swim bladder disorder will continue to try and feed, showing a normal appetite.



Cause:

The most common cause of swim bladder disorders is improper diet. An improper diet can lead to intestinal gas or intestinal blockages. Intestinal blockages can irritate the bowel, giving bacteria or other parasites an entry point where they can then cause damage to the swim bladder. Swim bladder disorders are most common in the larger, deep-bodied varieties of Goldfish. Fish also fed a lot of dried foods, especially pellets, are most susceptible. This condition is frequently observed in the later stages of Malawi Bloat, which is primarily due to an improper diet as well and intestinal irritation.



Treatment:

Because this disorder is due principally to an improper diet, a change in their feeding needs to be made. Dried foods with lots of protein should be kept to a minimum. Pellets and other dense foods should be soaked prior to feeding or completely eliminated from their diet. Foods with lots of fiber should be introduced, such as zucchini, squash, spinach, romaine lettuce, peas, and grated carrots. If you suspect that the fish is victim to a bacterial infection, treat the fish with a medicated food.

Not the author of this information.

 

[harryg]

Need to no water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,and ph, how many gallons is the tank, what do you feed the fish, sounds like swimbladder problems, also what does it look like when the fish goes to the toilet, dark patches on the belly can you describe it abit more, as dark patches can indicates a bacterial infection, any signs of and flicking and rubbing against objects, can also get heavy breahing with bactrial infctions,

[snapback]916202[/snapback]​

Water stats Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 5, ph 6.9 and the tank hold 50 gallons filter cleaned and changed weekly. Will get a 2nd test at LTFS.

Not seen this particular fish go to the toilet. The others which died looked normal. The dark path looks internal i.e. not a skin mark. Its a darkish shaded area 5-10 mm in diameter and is in the swollen area. Hard to see the darkness untill the fish has died and is out of the water. Tried to photograph but its not easy to see. No flicking or rubbing by any fish. The fish have have 2 x full anti-bacterial and a white spot treatment. I've got a golden wonderwhich is starting to show signs of problems but no swelling yet.

 

[WILDER]

You can control swim bladder with a good varied diet, i would feed a range of vegatables, once swim bladder has progressed it hard to cure, and you have used two round of the interpet anti internal bacteria med and it hasn't worked, it not a very strong med and antibiotics are not available is the country, i would go with epson salt baths and the veg route, but don't give fish the epson salt bath if the fish are scaless fish, one tablespoon to the gal.

 

[WILDER]

http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/feed...egetables.shtml

 

[WILDER]

http/ukdiscus.com/ken_thomson_salt.htm

 

[harryg]

Swim Bladder Disorder



The Swim bladder is a gas-filled sac located inside the fish’s body cavity just above most of the other internal organs. This sac is what gives the fish buoyancy and controls equilibrium. The amount of gas in this sac changes as the fish rises and sinks in the water, enabling it to swim, hover and move in the water. Without the use of the Swim-bladder organ a fish is unable to control it's own movements.



Symptoms:

Fish with a swim bladder disorder appear to have an abnormal swimming pattern, usually with their tail end up. They also appear to have difficulty maintaining equilibrium. They may even float upside down or appear to be stuck at the surface of the water, being unable to swim down, or they may lie on the bottom, unable to rise. Fish with a swim bladder disorder will continue to try and feed, showing a normal appetite.



Cause:

The most common cause of swim bladder disorders is improper diet. An improper diet can lead to intestinal gas or intestinal blockages. Intestinal blockages can irritate the bowel, giving bacteria or other parasites an entry point where they can then cause damage to the swim bladder. Swim bladder disorders are most common in the larger, deep-bodied varieties of Goldfish. Fish also fed a lot of dried foods, especially pellets, are most susceptible. This condition is frequently observed in the later stages of Malawi Bloat, which is primarily due to an improper diet as well and intestinal irritation.



Treatment:

Because this disorder is due principally to an improper diet, a change in their feeding needs to be made. Dried foods with lots of protein should be kept to a minimum. Pellets and other dense foods should be soaked prior to feeding or completely eliminated from their diet. Foods with lots of fiber should be introduced, such as zucchini, squash, spinach, romaine lettuce, peas, and grated carrots. If you suspect that the fish is victim to a bacterial infection, treat the fish with a medicated food.

Not the author of this information.

[snapback]916245[/snapback]​

Some of the symptoms match my fish.
Is swim bladder disease fatal? My fish eat 50/50 live/frozen and crisp food, with a Sera spiralina tablet few times a week stuck on the glass.

 

[WILDER]

Once swim bladder has progressed yes it's fatal, maybe introduce more roughage and veg into there diet, good luck.

 

[WILDER]

http/www.hv3.7h.com/Swim%20Bladder%20Disease.html

 

[harryg]

Once swim bladder has progressed yes it's fatal, maybe introduce more roughage and veg into there diet, good luck.

[snapback]916307[/snapback]​

I'll try more greens for them. Is there an immediate treatment I can you to help the sick Gourami?

 

[WILDER]

Only other thing to do is place two drops of cod liver oil into the fish mouth, but you can't feed the fish then for two days, wrap in a cloth in tank water to preform this.

 

[sylvia]

What do you mean you clean out and change the filter weekly? You shouldn't be changing the filter media s this causes mini-cycles (which in turn stress fish, making them more susceptible to disease and often resulting in subsequent death). Though it also sounds like swimmbladder to me, I'd think it more likely to be an internal bacterial infection because you don't usualy get a fish dying from swim bladder every couple of weeks (it's not an actual disease so isn't contagious). On the other hand - swim bladder problems can be a SYMPTOM of internal bacterial infections. As such, I'd isolate all fish that appear to be infected (you MUST isolate or you'll never break the cycle) and treat them with a broad-spectrum antibiotic. If you can get one that's added to food, so much the better. There's no guarantee the fish you are treating will survive but those remaining in the tank hopefuly will. It doesn't hurt to also try treating the swimbladder like Wilder has suggested while you're at it. It may still help. Lastly, I'd like to express some concerns over stocking - you mentioned the death of 3 dwarf gouramies (dwarf gouramies are especialy susceptible to internal bacterial infections and often carry such disease - go for a honey next time - that is colisa chuna/sota as opposed to colisa lalia) and puffers. Puffers don't make good community fish so, hopefuly, they were not all kept in the same tank. Keeping incompatible fish only increases stress levels - adding to the chances of a fish contracting a disease (and then it being passed on when the fish dies and is nibbled on by its tankmates - or when its tankmates happen to eat some poo from it or whatever).

 

[harryg]

What do you mean you clean out and change the filter weekly? You shouldn't be changing the filter media s this causes mini-cycles (which in turn stress fish, making them more susceptible to disease and often resulting in subsequent death). Though it also sounds like swimmbladder to me, I'd think it more likely to be an internal bacterial infection because you don't usualy get a fish dying from swim bladder every couple of weeks (it's not an actual disease so isn't contagious). On the other hand - swim bladder problems can be a SYMPTOM of internal bacterial infections. As such, I'd isolate all fish that appear to be infected (you MUST isolate or you'll never break the cycle) and treat them with a broad-spectrum antibiotic. If you can get one that's added to food, so much the better. There's no guarantee the fish you are treating will survive but those remaining in the tank hopefuly will. It doesn't hurt to also try treating the swimbladder like Wilder has suggested while you're at it. It may still help. Lastly, I'd like to express some concerns over stocking - you mentioned the death of 3 dwarf gouramies (dwarf gouramies are especialy susceptible to internal bacterial infections and often carry such disease - go for a honey next time - that is colisa chuna/sota as opposed to colisa lalia) and puffers. Puffers don't make good community fish so, hopefuly, they were not all kept in the same tank. Keeping incompatible fish only increases stress levels - adding to the chances of a fish contracting a disease (and then it being passed on when the fish dies and is nibbled on by its tankmates - or when its tankmates happen to eat some poo from it or whatever).

[snapback]916368[/snapback]​

I don't agree about your comment about puffers, my puffers are happy in a community tank, does it not deped upon the type of puffer? The tank is not over stocked either. I will not be buying any more Dwarf Gouramis I have other species of fish which have not had any problems at all. Even Kuhli Loaches which are very healthy (do they have a swim bladder?) and play around happily.


Yes I do change the filter's filter wool usually weeekly not religously. Doesn't the bacteria live in the ceramic/glass beads, so how does it stress the fish?

As I mentioned previously I have treated the fish with antibioticsbut did not make any difference. I will look out for a different formula to try incase the bacteria has become resistant.