Very Listless Betta... Advice?

[Serbrider]

I'm a college student, and hadn't really thought about it until now... I've never owned a betta before this guy... so I'm still not completely sure what's "normal" and what's not. And at first, I thought it was just age... but... I was on another forum and noticed some other bettas... and how different in behavior they were from mine. I mean... mine has never been very active... but recently I've noticed that he's been FAR less active... and almost in pain... and weak... or something. Nothing external, no bloating, etc. He's still eating, just very lethargic. He swims really fast to get a breath of air, or to eat, and then sinks back down to the tank, with a curved body. He's not clamping his fins... but he doesn't look happy.

I found this list of questions on a blog... so I'll answer it all:

1. How long have you had your betta?
I bought him in March/April of 2011. I don't exactly remember. So around 7-8 months.

2. What is the water volume or tank size?
5 gallons

3. Is this a betta bowl or an aquarium with a filter?
5 gallon aquarium with a filter and heater.

4. Have you tested for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate? What were the results?
Not ammonia because the ammonia in this area is very low to none.
Nitrite - around 0
Nitrate - around 0

5. Have you tested for pH, kh and gh? What were the results?
pH - it was at the 8.4... which probably means it's too basic... how do I make it more acidic?
kh - it was at 300... too high...
gh - it was at the 300... too hard...

6. What is the water temperature?
Over the course of a couple days it goes between 76 and 80... mostly around 78 though.

7. How often do you change your tank water? How much water do you replace at a time?
To be honest... I haven't changed the water as often I normally used to. When I first got him, and before I got to college I changed it every two or three weeks, 50 or 70% water change.

8. Are there other fish in the tank with your betta? Which species and how many? When were they added?
No other fish. I got him a snail once... the poor thing was dead with a cracked shell in one day.

9. How often do you feed your betta? What types of food are you using? How much are you feeding each time?
I feed about five pellets. It's Aqueon Betta Food that I got at Petsmart a while back. I got it because the pellets were much smaller than what he first had, and he likes it better... and I also feed a couple freeze dried blood worms once a week... and normal feedings are twice a day with one fast day a week (generally Sundays).

10. What water additives and medications are you using? Remember to include water conditioners or salt if you’re using them.
Only water additive is Jungle Start Right water conditioner. He had some ich a few months ago and I had added some rock salt to the water... and it cleared up.



So yeah... after going through all of those... I'm guessing it's probably the water quality. What do y'all suggest I use to fix it? Should I continue with what I'm feeding?


And I got some help from the betta forum... but I was told to repost... so I am. Here's more info from it though:

I just did a water chage... it was about a 70% water change... and tomorrow I'm heading to the store to get whatever I can. Some live plants, some more gravel, and perhaps a new decoration... but yeah. The main reason I put in more than just two or three pellets is because the water current generally ends up making most of them go far away from him, so I'll keep adding until he eats one or two, or stops eating, and then I scoop them all out. Probably should have mentioned that. But he still might be eating a bit too much.

Here's an album with photos. He did have some fake plants in his tank, I took them out when I changed the water, and left them out so I could take some pictures.

http/s278.photobuc...der/Glorfindel/

I got him at Walmart (one that took EXCELLENT care of their bettas... I was very happy to see that when I got him), and he was as big as he is now. (if he's fat... maybe not fat... but at least with length and everything).

But even if he's fat and old... would that make him spend hours on end doing nothing but "sitting" on his leaf or on top of the heater? That's what I'm worried about more than anything... or when he slips and falls down to the bottom of the tank he has trouble swimming all the way back to the top, and when he does, he gets air, and then floats back down...

At first he did nothing. Then after moving the mirror a bit closer, he started to flare, then swam off of the heater he was on. Tried again, no flare, he just swam in the opposite direction. Tried again, same result, no flare and swam in the opposite direction.



He's been kind of listless for the past couple of weeks... but honestly, he's still been kind of active... just his normal activity, but he's still moved around... the past day or two he's barely moved. He still swims up to eat... but... otherwise... very listless and barely moving.

I've joked about how he's a horrible fish (he was social for probably the first day I got him, then he wanted nothing to do with me... would swim to the opposite side of the tank, or flare up and try and attack the side of the tank...), and how I would love another fish... but I don't want him to die...


Should I go buy some of the special betta water from the store? The tap water has the same high pH, kh, and gh levels... could that be causing an issue?

I also got told by someone else that he might possibly have internal parasites... I was going to go get some of the PraziPro or something... think that would help any?

I have a baffle on the filter, and am very careful about the current. I'll do the water changes, the one pellet soaked, and pick up some peas or broccoli tomorrow.


Thanks guys.

 

[CezzaXV]

Did you cycle your tank before putting him in there? It would also be useful if you could test for ammonia as fish produce ammonia and the fact that there's none in your tap water doesn't mean much.

It's also highly irregular that there's no nitrate in the water, but this may be the fault of the nitrate test as they're notorious for solidifying and you may need to give the test solution a long, hard shake and bang it on the desk several times.

It would be good to know how your tap water compares to your tank water. If there's a big difference it may be something like pH shock.

I think you're probably over feeding, which will also impact on the water quality, which is why we need to know more about the water in your tank.

 

[lucasluke]

+1

Instantly sounds like ammonia poisoning to me.
We need your ammonia levels. Just because your tap water has no ammonia in it, doesn't mean you fish tank wont. Fish give off ammonia when the poop and pee.
Secondly, water changes every 3 weeks is no good. It needs to be weekly, especially in a tank that small.

 

[mattyd1701]

agree with everything lucasluke and CezzaXV said

just because there is no ammonia in your area does not mean there wont be ammonia in your tank fish give off ammonia as do humans and anything with some sort of waste disposal in there body. you need to find out what the ammonia levels are in your tank

and as for your pH you said

pH - it was at the 8.4... which probably means it's too basic... how do I make it more acidic?

Bettas need a 7 in pH which is neutral get some sort of pH reducer from your LFS

i have a 6 US Gallon fish tank and i do a water change nearly twice a week just because i have 4 fish in there with sand substrate i do it to clean to poop up but once every 3 weeks is not enough needs at least 1 weekly at least 25% of the water

 

[CezzaXV]

Don't get a pH reducer. They work for a little bit but then the pH will go back to what it originally was and then your fish get pH shock. There are more gentle ways of reducing the pH if you really wanted to go down that route, but generally a stable pH is more important to fish than a correct one.

In any case, with a pH that high I imagine you live in a hard water area, which means your water will have a high buffering capacity so it will be very resistant to changes in pH. (I wish I had this - my water is soft and the pH flies about all over the place!)

RO water may be an option in the future if the pH/hardness really was a problem, but that's not the immediate issue right now as its likely the ammonia in the water that's causing your problem.

 

[mattyd1701]

yes listen to CezzaXV about the pH

i personally dont know much about dropping the pH and the reducers are the only thing i have heard of simply because its in the back of the manual for my API Master Test Kit hope yah get everything sorted and your betta gets better

 

[loraxchick]

More live plants would never go amiss. I agree dont get pH reducers. Fluctuating pH wil be more harmful than just leaving it be.
Good you changed lots of water. Do another large waterchange and then every 3 days for 2 weeks and see if that helps. You ultimately should be changing about 30-40% of the water weekly. Dont forget to dechlorinate.
It also is quite normal for bettas to get lazy as they get older and become accustom to their surroundings. try changing the decor around in the tank...might spark his interest and make him a little more active. So long as no signs of illness hes probably just comfortable in his surroundings and cozy and warm by the heater.
cheers

 

[Serbrider]

Thanks guys. I'm going to pick up an ammonia test in a bit, get some live plants, some more gravel, a few more new things to hopefully spark his interest. Should I go ahead and get the PraziPro? Or just wait and see if just the change in environment and water is enough to get him pumped up again?

I hadn't cycled the tank before putting him in there (six months ago). A few months afterwards I was reading up on fungal infections (which he had, I ended up putting some talk in the tank and all was good after about a week), and found out about the cycling.

So yeah, heading off to the store now. Thanks so much guys!

 

[Serbrider]

Just did an ammonia test (drops) from the tank. Ammonia number is 0.

Doing another water change and adding some new gravel, some live plants, a background, and a bubble stone (it was 99 cents... and hey... it's a 5 gallon tank... he might like it). Fingers crossed.

 

[CezzaXV]

This might seem a stupid thing to say, but you know a bubble stone needs to be connected to an air pump, right?

 

[Serbrider]

Ummm... no. It's not stupid... for some reason I thought it didn't. >.< Oh well. I'll take it out and then get an air pump at some point. *facepalm*

So... it's all set up... now... to wait ~24 hours before I can put him back in. (to filter out everything from the gravel and the plants)

 

[Hunterprey]

Maybe dont bother with the airstone. IME Bettas prefer calm water. My Male Fighter is very active in my unfiltered 5 gallon tank by himself. Just have to do more frequent big water changes in my tank.

If you want to lower your PH maybe just add a piece of wood. It will make your water turn yellow tho cuz of tannins that the wood will excrete, its harmless. You can also get a presoaked wood so it doesnt turn your water yellowish.

Hope your Betta gets better.

 

[Serbrider]

He's been in the tank for about 4 hours now... he's still just lying mostly at the bottom... doing nothing, swimming really fast to the top for air, then sinks back down. Occasionally moving from one corner of the tank to another to get onto a leaf, but always really quickly, and then just staying still for the next thirty minutes to an hour. How long will it take? I know it doesn't happen immidiately, but there doesn't seem to be any progress...

 

[Reret]

Hope he gets better

 

[Serbrider]

Thanks. Still nothing. Tried giving him some brocolli tips... didn't eat. Tried some bloodworms and pellets... nothing. Scooped them back out after 30 minutes of being completely ignored.

I really hope he gets better.