Use Of Salt

[Dutsey]

I have had a few deaths recently in the tank.

My Water stats are ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and Nitrate 40pp.

I spoke to my lfs and he has asked me about salt. Would this be safe to use?

 

[TANKROOM]

What fish have you have in your tank

 

[Dutsey]

Rams, tetra's, guppies, clown loach

 

[Bignose]

You need to identify the root cause of the deaths rather than just tossing some salt in there and hoping it will be a magic bullet. Your clown loaches are also rather salt intolerant.

can you post some pre-death symptoms? Any unusual activity by the fish? Or discoloration or spots growing?

 

[TANKROOM]

Aquarium salt is commonly used with black mollies as these need some salt. If they dont have salt they develop white patches that look like white spot.
Have you had any problems with your tank.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The best single article I have seen in years on the topic of salt in a fw aquarium can be found here:
The Salt of the Earth, the Salt from the Sea . . By: Robert T. Ricketts, a.k.a. RTR

 

[fishguy2727]

I wouldn't use aquarium salt on a regular basis in any freshwater tank. Even mollies are fine in freshwater if the water quality is maintained. These are freshwater fish and should be kept that way. Adding salt will at best treat some symptoms but the real issue should be addressed. Unless there is an aggressive fish in the tank the two main problems in aquarium are low quality food or water.

Clown loaches are not as sensitive to salt as they are routinely thought, but I still don't recommend using salt regularly in any freshwater tank.

As stated you need to fix the actual problem. So far the only issue I see is that the nitrate is 40ppm, it should never go over 20ppm even before a water change. I would only use salt on certain illnesses and conditions that can be treated with salt. Adding it blindly is avoiding the real issue (usually food or water quality).

 

[Bignose]

So far the only issue I see is that the nitrate is 40ppm, it should never go over 20ppm even before a water change.

This is an awfully low number. We've had several people look for evidence of nitrate toxicity before, and our research has found that most fish show no symptoms at all up to 400 ppm of nitrate, maybe even as high as 1000 ppm before any real harm is done. Can you cite where you got this number of 20 ppm?

Thanks,
Bignose

 

[fishguy2727]

How quick do you want the toxicity to occur before you accept it is the nitrate? Nitrate effects the fish long term. So although sticking them in an aquarium with 160ppm MAY not cause any immediate harm, it will cause problems long term. In addition, the nitrate concentration generally correlates well with other chemicals that lower water like growth inhibiting hormones, dissolved organic compounds, etc. If the nitrate concentration is not kept low most likely there other things (which we don't have test kits for) will not be low either.

What is your water change schedule?
What is your tap water's nitrate concentration?

 

[StandbySetting]

it will cause problems long term.

Any evidence for this? My Nitrate levels hover around 50PPM, I dose Potassium Nitrate on a regular basis, as part of my EI regime, no long term problems so far, having also seen a paper on nitrate toxicity citing 400PPM I have to echo what Bignose said, I believe I read it on the Barr report if you wish to take a look.

 

[fishguy2727]

That is fine. Nitrate sure isn't beneficial to fish. I am not sure how long it took 400ppm to cause problems, but I am guessing it wasn't years.

I would never recommend keeping nitrate over 20ppm. Eveyr discus keeper I have ever talked to has agreed that the lower the better.

Again, regardless of whether or not the nitrate itself is toxic at lower levels, the other things that buildup with it are.

 

[Bignose]

here is a link to one of a few good discussions this forum has had before:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/228229-i-apologize/page__p__1910541__hl__%2Bnitrate+%2Btoxicity__fromsearch__1#entry1910541

400 ppm is mentioned as rather safe for fish. Not as much for inverts, but the fish themselves. I certainly don't know the answer, but I think that there is enough evidence that 20 ppm isn't a sacrosanct number like it is made out to be here. I do like the conclusion at the end of the thread there, though, which is pretty simply: "try to keep the nitrates as low as you can".

 

[fishguy2727]

Then why test it?
If you aren't going by nitrate concentration how are you measuring water quality?

 

[Bignose]

Then why test it?
If you aren't going by nitrate concentration how are you measuring water quality?

It is just one dimension of many that describe water quality. And, I'm not against testing, but I don't think that declaring anything over 20 ppm of nitrate is automatically bad. I agree that lower is definitely better, especially for some species more than others. Discus as you mention above can be very sensitive. Cory catfish are known to experience a fair amount of barbel erosion when organic chemicals are high, and that certainly includes nitrate. This is where research into the particular species is very important. It is also important to the OP of this thread, as some species are much more tolerant of salt than others, too.

 

[fishguy2727]

But again, what are you testing to measure water quality? I know nitrate is only one aspect of it, but what else can a hobbyist test to measure water quality at all?

Although some fish may be more sensitive to it (show negative signs at lower concentrations), it doesn't mean that other species are perfectly fine in it. It is still harmful, but the effects aren't as signficant short term. It simply means they won't suffer from it until later in life, after years of being in that slightly higher concentration.

You have to draw a line somehwere though, and it certainly isn't 400ppm. Any exact number may be relatively arbitrary (25ppm isn't bad while 18ppm is healthy), but without drawing the number somewhere you simply have to say 'if they are 'okay' then it is 'good enough''.