Urgent! Please Help, Tank Fast Becoming A Graveyard!

[xamy_valox]

Hi, 
 
I have just come home to find that practically half of my tank has been wiped out, there are just dead bodies everywhere.
 
The levels in my tank have been rubbish for a while, the ammonia has been around 0.50 and the nitrates at 0, however the nitrites have also been at 0. To rectify this I have been doing water changes every other day of around 30%. I was also advised to pop in some 'Special Blend' to help reduce the ammonia, I did this twice but to no effect.
 
Yesterday I did another water change, this time of around 40% incase the ones I had been doing haven't been enough, which may be why I wasn't getting the results. I also treated with Myxazin as my Angel Fish has been suffering with a bacterial infection (I cannot quarantine her as I have no way of setting up a hospital tank). The bacterial infection consisted of small silvery marks on her scales, not red or sore, but still wanted to see if I could help them before they got worse.
 
Turned everything on again, and everything seemed fine. Also, was the case this morning.
 
Now when I have come back from being out, Ive looked in the tank to see that all of my neon tetra's, rummy nose tetra's, pentazone barbs and some of my penguin tetras are either dead, or are staying very close to the top, and seem to be gasping for air. I immediately put the air pump on to see if I could help to oxygenate the water. I also have the tank pump rippled across the surface to help with this at all times.
 
My Bolivian Rams are all huddled together (something they never do as they quite often bicker) underneath the filter, and my cores have gone very still, and again are all huddled together. It also looks as if their fins have gone a weird colourless grey, which is strange as they are Sterbai Cory and so normally have orange fins.
 
The only fish that doesn't seem affected is my Angel, who seems to be swimming normally but does also seem to be breathing heavier than normal.
 
I attach some pics to give you an idea..
 

 

 

 

 

 
Here are also the results of my water test as soon as I came in. This is how they have been for a while now, despite at least 3-4 weeks of constant water changes.
 

 
If someone could give me some urgent advice as to what steps to take next I would be very appreciative. I really don't want to lose my entire tank.
 
Thank You.

 

[fishwarrior]

Your tank doesn't appear to be cycled, ammonia and nitrites should be = 0.  Do a water change at least 40-50%

 

[star4]

It looks like you are not using the test kit correctly I am afraid, you need to have 5ml of tank water for an accurate test, the nitrite is well below the line, if you are doing the same with the other two you will be getting false readings.
 
Do a 50% wc, by chance have you checked your tap water stats, you may have a problem there.
 
It might be worth asking your LFS for some mature media, unless you know anyone local with some.

 

[xamy_valox]

Hi, 
 
I do normally do very accurate testing, its just I was in such a panic when I came home and saw what was happening, and to be honest it is reading exactly as it does.
 
I think I have cracked whats happened. It seems the coral I had in my filter has disintegrated, and so my PH has suddenly dropped from 7.6 to 6. I'm assuming this has happened over the last couple of weeks which is why I haven't been getting my normal readings. 
 
I have added in some more coral to the filter, and so I am expecting a spike in Nitrates and Nitrites as my cycle starts up again. Would there be any reason as to why my PH drops so much in the tank from the tap? 
 
Also, is it likely that the remaining fish I have will die shortly from this?

 

[star4]

I am confused why you have coral in your filter? is this crushed coral? this would normally be used to raise pH, but its such a small change even when using a large amount of crushed coral.

 

[xamy_valox]

Yeah, crushed coral. I was advised to put it in to raise the ph a while ago, and it worked but it must now have disintegrated as there was nothing left in the filter.

I want to raise the ph, as I need to to be nearer 7 and it is currently sitting at 6.

 

[star4]

A pH of 6 would be fine for the fish you have, why do you need it at 7?. Do you know your KH by chance. Raising pH is not really as simple as adding something to the tank and it stays stable continuously.
 
Personally I would get rid of the coral and add some sponge or other media to your filter, if you can get hold of mature sponge the better as it looks like your tank has gone into a cycle with the loss of the coral.
 
The remaining fish should recover from pH shock, you may get some other die I am afraid.

 

[xamy_valox]

I was advised by my LFS when I phoned them about my situation, that 7 is the ideal ph. I dont know my KH sorry.
 
If my ph has been at 6 for a while then, why would my cycle suddenly have gone haywire? I dont understand how this has actually happened as previous to this my levels have always been spot on! I do weekly water changes of around 20-30% normally.
 
I have a Fluval U4 Filter in the tank which currently has sponge in there as well as biomax in the central bit, which is where I have also added the crushed coral. It seems the majority of the larger fish are holding up OK for the moment (Angel, Bolivians, Plec and Corys) however almost all of the smaller tetra type fish have perished.
 
Would you recommend I carry on with the water changes? And if I cant get hold of any mature media, how can I kick start my tank into a proper cycle again, as currently there just seems to be ammonia and nothing else, it just isnt converting.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Sorry to hear you've been having some problems.

My first piece of advice is to take any advice from any LFS with a large grain of salt. LFS normally only give advice you want to hear in order to sell you some products from thier stores. Best practice is to ask for advice or help from this forum for example.

Ok, as for your tank, I very much doubt your tank is actually cycled. Would advise you to have a read of this if you have not already done so, http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

A couple questions first, how long have you had your tank running with these stocking?

If you think you already have cycled the tank, how did you do this and how long did it take etc?

Size of tank or dimensions?

What is your tap water parameters?

Then we'll try to help you from there.

 

[star4]

I have never used coral as filter media so I am guessing at this one. You say it has disintigrated, this would mean any beneficial bacterial that was once on that coral has now been lost, which means the beneficial bacteria had no where else to go. Media has x amount of beneficial bacteria on, so when some is removed x amount is lost, which means the bacteria that is left has to "catch up" resulting in a mini cycle, which with water changes you can control.
 
As for the LFS telling you that the pH needs to be 7 for those fish is not correct as the fish you have do better in lower ph of 6 which you have. The alteration of pH from the coral and water changes has put a lot of stress on the fish, also the breakdown of the coral resulting in a mini cycle has not helped I am afraid.
 
I am not familiar with "special blend" but a lot of these "miracle cures" for high ammonia do not actually remove it from the tank, just bind it causing more problems, the best cure for water quality problems is fresh water.
 
Ch4rlie is correct in saying shops will sell you anything .
 
Forget coral, stick with the media you have, the bacteria will catch up and the ammonia, nitrites and nitrate will stabalise and you can go back to weekly water changes after a while, and dont worry about your pH, your fish will appreciate it at 6 more than you trying to correct something that really doesnt need correcting. Its not your fault so dont feel bad

 

[xamy_valox]

I just feel awful! I have been keeping fish for 4 years and have never had anything like this before! My levels have always been near on perfect and I have never lost so many fish so quickly!
 
Ch4arlie, this tank has been set up for roughly 18 months. Previous to this tank which is a 125 litre Fluval Roma, I had a 70 litre Juwel Aquarium which I transferred the mature media from to kick start this tank. Only moved over the previous 70 litre inhabitants and as my levels stayed steady, slowly over a length of time added the other fish I wanted stocked in the bigger tank.
 
I have only checked the ph of my tap water, and it comes out as 7. 
 
Star4, see this is where I get confused because I have always thought, been told and also read that at a ph of 6, the bacteria in the filter die and so this is what causes a mini cycle. This is also backed up in the link that Ch4rlie shared. So if this is the case, how can a ph of 6 be OK in my tank?
 
I don't use Crushed Coral predominantly as a filter media, its just when I was told to use it, and as I read up on it, it was advised to place it within your filter so that is gets cycled instead of sitting stagnant. My filter is made up of 3 chambers, 2 for sponges and one central piece for Biomax chalk bricks. It is amongst these bricks that I place the crush coral, so that the water flows around it all.
 
I used Special Blend on the one occasion that I could not seem to get my ammonia down, and it did seem to work (wether it was actually this or just my persistence in water changes I don't know) but as it is, this is out of date now so I shall not be using it again and have thrown it away. 
 
I am still confused as to what has brought on this mini cycle. I am pretty sure the coral that had previously been in my tank, has been long gone for a while. Up until around 4 weeks ago my levels were fine, with a reading of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 5 nitrates. I then went on holiday and left my dad in charge of feeding - he overfed unfortunately and so I had put this down to my initial high ammonia levels. I thought this would be rectified with some larger than usual water changes. Is it the fact that my water ph was 6, and my tap water is 7, so by doing larger changes I have altered the ph too much?
 
Also, as the fish have been in a higher than normal ammonia tank for roughly 4 weeks and been 'fine' (I know they aren't fine, as the ammonia would still be affecting them, but to look in the tank they seemed fine and weren't dying), to all of a sudden after a 40% water change, completely freaking out and dying within an hour in the afternoon the next day?
 
I did another test when I came home from work: ammonia 1, nitrate 0, nitrite 0, ph 6.4 I have therefore carried out around a 30% water change to again try and get rid of some of the ammonia.
 
Should I now test every day and do daily water changes?
 
Thank you for all your help.

 

[star4]

The pH can drop because of the filter cycling, which is really helpful if you are getting ammonia readings because the lower the pH the less toxic ammonia is. I have never heard that at pH 6 the bacteria dying off, I have certainly never experienced that, the ph in my tanks usually stabalises around 6.5.
 
If you are getting readings of ammonia yes test every day and wc accordingly.

 

[xamy_valox]

Its just when I have been reading up on the Nitrogen Cycle, it has been in every article I have read about 6 being lethal for the good bacteria, and as I say, it is also mentioned in the link that Ch4rlie posted.
 
I will test again tomorrow then and do a water change if necessary. How long should I expect to wait until it stabilises? Or is that asking how long a piece of string is?

 

[AeonMapa]

The new cycle can take a week to a month.... But if you can get cycled media from another tank it can be a few days or less. good bacteria can still live fine at a PH of 6. Unless you're breeding or your water is on the extremely high or low scale of the PH its almost always better to just leave it be. The fish (and filter bacteria) can adapt to most PH levels as long as it remains constant. It's the constant swings and changes when adjusting the PH that are more dangerous. If you've been keeping fish for 4 years with your tap water at PH 6 that means its perfectly capable of supporting filter bacteria and fish. Don't change what isn't broken, and sorry to hear about your fish dying

 

[star4]

Ah reading through the link I can see where you (and I lol) have got confused. When cycling a tank the KH, and hydrogen ions get used up during the cycle which leads to a ph drop, hence then the advice to do a wc and re-dose with ammonia. When cycling a tank yes you have to be careful of a pH drop, because that tells you the kh, hydrogen ions (buffers) have been used up and need to be replenished with fresh water.
 
In a mature tank, this is similar to what is called old tank syndrome, usually when not enough water is changed or not frequently enough.
 
It appears in your case you have been wrongly advised that once your tank had cycled and your ph was stable at 6 to raise it to 7 when there was absolutely no need as the cycle was complete. This is why it is best to cycle a tank and see what the natural ph becomes then choose fish to suit
 
Now because of the breakdown of the coral, which would have only slightly altered the ph your filter has gone into a mini cycle. The coral increases slightly the buffering capacity, once this is used up there is no more, which has resulted in a drop. 
 
As your filter should already have been cycled it is only going to have to "catch up" so it shouldnt take too long, keep monitoring and water changes until it becomes stable again and dont worry if the pH is at 6, only worry if it drops again, but with regular water changes it shouldnt.
 
I hope this helps clear it up a little better