Upping My Ph Without Chemicals

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antonbhoy

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Hi,
my pH sits around 6.4-6.5. (I  live in Glasgow where I seem to have very soft water). To have fish like guppies, or platies I think I need to up my pH to around 7.  My LFS told me I could use coral rocks, but over time my pH would go quite high, so I was thinking about mixing some crushed sea shells in my gravel.  Is this a good idea, and would the shells loose effectiveness over time?
Regards,
Anthony
 
To be ideal for livebearers, you would want your pH to be up around 7.4 or perhaps a tad higher.
 
Yes, your idea would work fine, and yes the effect would diminish over time.
 
I myself would get fish based on what my water ph was. Everytime you change the water ph will change anf overtime this can annoy/reduce the lifespan. Messing with ph is not worth it.
 
I'd agree with techen, rather than changing your water to suit the fish, get fish that suit the water you have or you'll have fluctuating Ph at every water change which will affect the fish.
This is not directed at you Op, just something that irks me every time I see it.
Fish took millenia to evolve to live in certain conditions & many people say "oh it's ok, it'll adapt" yes they'll survive in harder/softer water but it will take a toll on their health & lifespan.
 
The "It'll adapt" thing is fine for softwater fish in hard water, but not hardwater fish in soft. Hardwater fish need the dissolved minerals in hard water, but the minerals don't, in general, harm softwater fish that don't need them.
 
However, if the OP particularly wants to keep those species, then I think it's best to give them the best advice to allow them to do what they want, rather than to tell them that they're not allowed.
 
I guess it all depends upon the OP's view - if Anton is fine with keeping softwater fish, then that's best, but if you seriously want guppies and platies, then the crushed shells idea will work better than using artificial chemicals.
 
The GH is actually more crucial to fish than pH.  Fortunately, the pH usually follows the GH.  But the point is that if you deal with the GH, you will likely find the pH following suit.  And I certainly agree that chemicals are not the way to do this.
 
The advice to select fish suited to your source water is one of the most important guides in this hobby.  Aside from the normal day to day health of the fish (to which I'll return momentarily), when trouble like disease occurs and more frequent or larger water changes are called for, it makes life much easier to be able to use the tap water.  I have in the past had issues requiring 75% water changes on alternate days, and this would have caused no end of problems if I had been unable to just turn on the tap to fill the tank.
 
However, hardening the water is much simpler than the reverse.  I have zero GH/KH water with a pH of below 5 [they now add soda ash to raise the pH to 7, but this is temporary and GH/KH remains zero].  I have successfully kept tanks of rift lake cichlids and livebearers in the past by simply using a calcareous substrate (dolomite, aragonite, crushed coral, etc).  You can also add a smaller amount of these to the filter chamber.  I did this during the 1990's in two tanks to retain a pH of 6.4 (tap was then below 5).  If you want livebearers, this is the way to go; adding chemicals is expensive and less reliable, and probably much harder on the fish.  I would not mix soft water fish in this tank.
 
I agree that fish requiring moderately hard or harder water will not fare well in soft and acidic water.  Fish need the "hard" minerals, and they obtain them by removing them from the water passing into the fish via osmosis through all the cells.  Guppies may be something of an exception, and the deterioriation in the health of this fish in recent years may well be linked to all this.  But platies, mollies, swordtails, etc. do need some mineral in the water.
 
The so-called adaptability of soft water fish to moderately hard water is not held by all in the ichthyological community.  Some species show adaptability (not surprisingly, the natural range parameters of these species may be a clue), others do not.  The hard minerals, especially calcium, in the water will be removed by the kidneys as the water passes into the fish by osmosis, but there is often the liklihood of this calcium increasing until it blocks the kidneys and the fish just dies.  This was well documented in cardinal tetra, and there is no reason to assume it is not also occurring in other species.  Only dissection after death will reveal it, as there are no external signs.  The fish seems fine, but doesn't live the normal life expectancy.  When one is able, providing water suited to the physiology of the species seems to me to be preferable if one wants healthy fish.  The internal homeostasis of any fish will function better in water parameters for which the fish has evolved naturally.
 
Byron.
 
Hi folks,
thank you for the replys. One of the reasons I want/ed to get guppies or platies was due to the colours you can get, and when I visited my LFS,they were the first to catch my eye due to this. I value what you guys have said, and it has got me thinking, do i want to stress fish, and spend alot of time trying to get the right levels, rather then coming home from work and just enjoying my fish.
I know Rasboras can handle my pH, but I think I'll have to travel far and wide to see the various species.
 
Using my Sera rest strips I checked my tap water. The result was a pH of 6.4. So this morning I went along to a LFS and they check it too. Using liquid test kits they found I had a pH of 6, it may be even less. I live in a new build that is under a year old, would talking to Scottish water be of any help to me?
 
antonbhoy said:
Using my Sera rest strips I checked my tap water. The result was a pH of 6.4. So this morning I went along to a LFS and they check it too. Using liquid test kits they found I had a pH of 6, it may be even less. I live in a new build that is under a year old, would talking to Scottish water be of any help to me?
I don't understand the issue here.  You seem to have soft water (hundreds of aquarists would love to be in this situation, believe me), and a pH in the 6's or even 5's is not going to be a problem for soft water fish.  Some of my seven tanks run below pH 5, others in the low 6's.  Regular weekly partial water changes of half the tank plus not overcrowding or over feeding will keep things fine.
 
Byron.
 
It's not really an issue at the moment. I just would like to find out by how much will my water quality change over time as it looks like it's the main thing I'll have to keep on top of.
Also the LFS did show me some nice tetras and balloon rams that will suit soft water
 
antonbhoy said:
It's not really an issue at the moment. I just would like to find out by how much will my water quality change over time as it looks like it's the main thing I'll have to keep on top of.
Also the LFS did show me some nice tetras and balloon rams that will suit soft water
First, we still don't have your GH and KH numbers; you should be able to get these from your municipal/city water folks, perhaps on their website.  You have mentioned "soft" water, but the numbers are important.  The pH may lower or remain stable, depending upon the GH and especially KH.  The KH serves to "buffer" or prevent pH fluctuations, so knowing this number will give you/us an idea of what to likely expect re the pH.
 
GH and KH tend to remain the same in the aquarium, unless you are specifically targeting them, as by using calcareous rock/sand to raise the GH, etc.  The pH may shift, usually down over time, due to the increase in carbonic acid and CO2 from the breakdown of organics.  The GH/KH will work to stabilize this, as will regular weekly partial water changes.  Provided you don't overload the system or overfeed, the pH can remain fairly stable from week to week.  As I mentioned previously, my tanks vary in the pH, but in each tank the pH remains at that level and has for months.  There is a lot of complexity to an enclosed aquatic biological system, by which I mean that many things play into it; but it is not difficult to find the stability and retain it.
 
Byron.
 

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