Unusual nitrate levels?

🐠 May TOTM Voting is Live! 🐠
FishForums.net Tank of the Month!
🏆 Click here to Vote! 🏆

I'm going to pipe in here, remember this hobby is not an exact science. You can quote a thousand articles and look at as many experts as you like, but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is your own personal observations and your own conclusion's to those observations. I applaud the OP for what he is doing, it shows imagination and a desire to learn. These two things are a large part of the foundation of being human.
 
Scientists,who needs them haha.When scientists are baffled for an answer,their answer is “god knows”,a little contradictory don’t you think😂😂.
 
Can't everyone has his own opinion on certain things? Isn't this what a forum is about ?
There is no wrong and right in our hobby.

As said I think (and that's what you're telling in your post) water is polluted in different ways. Some can be solved by natural filtering (sometimes even without a filter), others can't.

In the enclosed environment like a tank only waterchanges can remove these pollution.
A build up can cause an unbalance.
Apparently different opinions, having different results or doing different things isn't allowed because it's wrong. And in a environment of interest with stupendous amount of possible variables and conditions anyone can and does face.
But what do I know
 
Hahahaha I doubt there is an excelsheet available and I understand the annoyance of the OP about "answers/opinions" on a question not asked. I don't think that specific question will be answered though I think the plants definitely help to keep this "overstocked" tank in balance. I like the part of our hobby that sometimes outcomes are unexpected / not being scientifically proven.
There won't be proper excelsheet as conditions don't allow me to test with spreadsheet accuracy.
I don't have the means to test Nitrate levels with accuracy; color matching isn't exactly the best way to obtain accurate reading; there is also possibility of test not being accurate in itself; then there is feeding inconsistencies, etc.

What I'm looking for is pattern and confirmation of pattern.
For example:
If i get test readings something like: 5 -5 - 10 - 20 - 15 -20 -25 -25 - 30... without Anubias/Java Fern.
Then after reintroducing Anubias/Java Fern: 30-25-25-20-15-15-10-15-5-10...
We'll get a clear pattern of rising and lowering Nitrates despite test variables inconsistencies.
It would give us fairly certain conclusion that Anubias/Java Ferns are indeed using more Nitrates than the tank is producing.
And I will post pattern readings if they are produced.
But then again there could be many other factors in play so we can't be 100% sure even with pattern results.

'overstocking levels' are based of rule of tumb general consensus: inch (cm) or fish per gallon (liter) of water.

So far:
- I had i had accidental pattern test reading showing:
reduction of nitrates from about 20ppm+ to what appears to be 0 or unreadable test level of Nitrates (I wasn't doing experiment so timing of tests over a month period isn't uniformed)

- I removed Anubias/ Java Fern on Monday (Australia time) and today I have reading of about 10ppm (give or take).
I am now looking for confirmation readings of rising levels (at least 2) before reintroducing plants to the test.

Fish appear healthy, feeding on algae and active. No observable stress.
We'll see how we go, I might have to cut experiment short if fish start showing signs of stress. It's been over a month now since last water change so I don't know if and when my tank might start crashing.
There also appears to be increase in algae since I removed plants. Specifically what appears to be hair algae. It's visual observation so it might be just me seeing something I haven't been paying attention to previously.

I have no idea what hair algae means in the context? or what conditions it likes?
 
For anyone who is interested in test results!

After removing Anubias/Java Fern from aquarium:

- There was steady increase in Nitrates build up. From 0 to about 30 in 3 weeks time. Thus I assume my tank produces about 10ppm of Nitrates per week.

- The build up of Nitrates was also accompanied with visible and progressive increase of algae growth on decorations and glass. There was also some clouding of water in the tank in last of 3 weeks. Similar to bacteria bloom from Nit. cycling, but not as pronounced as during Nit cycling. (don't know if this is connected).

-After reintroducing Anubias/Java Fern to the tank: The Nitrate levels slooowly dropped to about 15ppm over 4 week period. It was also accompanied with progressive reduction of algae. And water cloudiness cleared out within 1 week.
Therefore: it appears that my Anubias/Java Fern are using up slightly more Nitrates than the tank produces. Or in the case they are far better at using Ammonia then Nitrates, as someone suggested: they use up all new ammonia being produced but only can use little nitrate. Either way...

Conclusion: The Anubias/Java fern indeed appear to be able to keep my ecosystem at undetectable level of nitrates over prolonged period.


On the side note: the build up of organic matter (poo) was surprisingly low. It seemed to just remain about the same from around 4 weeks to the end of experiment. I have no idea what's happening there but I assume it gets dissolved into water column after a while and deposited into filter; or possibly some bacteria/algae process is removing visible build up.

P.S. all the fish seem pretty healthy and went through experiment without any issues with fish.
 
Hi,
Definitely interesting and a lil surprising as Anubias are slow growing plants unlike Java fern. Can we think that the experiment was only influenced by the Java fern, or say 90% ?
 
My nitrates are 20ppm but it's 30 in the tap water, i've had to cut down the amount i feed them just to get it to a steady level of 20.
 
My nitrates are 20ppm but it's 30 in the tap water, i've had to cut down the amount i feed them just to get it to a steady level of 20.
Hey, why deprive your fish of food when you can just regulate NO3 with RO or distilled water?
 
Hi,
Definitely interesting and a lil surprising as Anubias are slow growing plants unlike Java fern. Can we think that the experiment was only influenced by the Java fern, or say 90% ?
I have no idea. I did the experiment with both Java Fern and Anubias thus experiment doesn't tell us anything on possible uptake individually. It's possible I suppose.

But I've done some scientific paper reading on the subject in the meantime and there are some interesting things I've read:
for example:
-Plants mainly use 2 survival strategies.
1. Fast growing and trying to out-compete by gobbling up easily available resources. In the process they forsake photosynthesis, quality of their structure and ignore harder to process resources.
Meaning they will take forms of nitrogen that's easy for them to uptake. Their structure will be mostly made of water and empty space with very little Nitrogen, sugars, proteins, etc. Their leaves, body and roots will root, melt, dry, die easily if easily available resources aren't there anymore. Dried matter contains very little incorporated nitrogen, sugars, proteins, etc.
Therefore: if you have fast growing substrate or water column plants and you feed them with easily available resources (plant fertilizers which are mostly Nitrogen in easy to absorb form) they will grow fast and mostly ignore Nitrogen in water column (Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates and iron, phosphorus, etc from tank waste; because they have those in more easily absorbed forms from fertilizers).

2- Slow growing plant strategy.
They will absorb any resources available to them. Putting great effort into photosynthesis, 'quality' structure that is closely packed with nitrogen, sugars, proteins, etc. Have hard skin, body, leaves that can survive periods of lack of resources, have great water retention, etc. In the process they forsake trying to out-compete by growing fast (they won't try to outgrow other plants to be highest and have access to sun on top, but will concentrate on maximizing sun/resources they have available to them).
Their dry matter structure has much much greater concentration of Nitrogen, sugars, proteins then the structure of fast growing plants.
When one resource becomes unavailable they will use their stored reserves in structure to replace structure that takes up ammonia (for example) and redesign their structure to uptake nitrates if available. Same with leaves depending on availability of light or not, etc.

- generally; fast growing plants take up more Nitrogen than slow growing plants. But it greatly depends on temperature, environment, etc. At some temperatures slow growing plants take up more nitrogen than fast growing plants, etc.
So that was scientific paper on agriculture plants and grasses (Vegetables, trees, hay grass, etc) I assume it holds true for aquatic plants like slow growing Anubias and fast growing plants.

My conclusion from it:
If you have Slow growing tough structure plants and fast growing weak structure plants in aquarium without fertilizers = fast growers will use more Nitrogen produced by fish. But not as much as visual observation would suggest. Maybe 2x more max as per scientific research on different plants.

-Add fertilizers and that changes completely. Anubias might be the ones taking wast majority of resources that aren't fertilizer
 
Really ?
Can you provide these interesting links you read ?
No sorry, I wasn't saving links.
But there are literally hundreds of scientific research papers on the subject if you google it.
From photosynthesis efficiency that ranges from 0.1% to 8%. To how plants produce different leaves and structures to maximize photosynthesis or not depending on whether they need to produce food to grow themselves or not.
For example: Duckweed will grow in dark if provided with necessary sugars/minerals for growth completely abandoning photosynthesis. etc.
To how increasing CO2 supply to plants results in 5-50% reduction in nitrogen and mineral uptake and dry mass weight while growth rate is much higher.
To plant investment into root system, root hairs, different mechanisms of photosynthesis, protein production, etc dependent on availability of minerals, nitrogen form, light spectrum, CO2, etc...
Once you start reading you'll soon realize it's crazy how complex the whole thing is.
 
Last edited:
not really, in addition to changing the water regularly, you can also control the feeding proportions and utilize aquatic plants. Aquatic plants, like algae, feed on nitrates. Keeping aquatic plants in the aquarium helps prevent excessive nitrates.
If you need to reduce the number of nitrates in the water FAST just: water changes.
 
not really, in addition to changing the water regularly, you can also control the feeding proportions and utilize aquatic plants. Aquatic plants, like algae, feed on nitrates. Keeping aquatic plants in the aquarium helps prevent excessive nitrates.

You are correct that aquarium plants help prevent nitrates, but how they do this is not by feeding on nitrates. Most aquatic plants we keep in aquaria do not take up nitrates directly; they prefer ammonia/ammonium as their source of nitrogen, and they are not only very fast (out-competing the nitrifying bacteria even) at taking up ammonia/ammonium, they also take up a lot if it is present. This means the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria will be significantly fewer, and thus nitrite is not occurring, and then nitrite-oxidizing bacteria are fewer so nitrates do not accumulate. It is possible to have zero nitrates in a tank that has a good number of fast-growing plants and the fish load is balanced.

The above applies to nitrates that would occur within the aquarium, from the natural biological processes. Nitrates that may be present in source (tap) water used for water changes is a very different matter. Aquatic plants will have no effect on these, since these nitrates are being introduced with the water and are not due to the biological processes within the aquarium.

This also is applicable to what we generally refer to as low-tech method or natural planted tanks, where fish are the primary occupant and the plants are there for aesthetic reasons and to help with water quality. In high-tech method planted tanks, the increased light intensity, added CO2 and other nutrients, causes a shortage of ammonia/ammonium fairly quickly, and here the aquarist adds nitrate as it is safer than adding ammonia. This causes extra work for the plants, however, which is why they do not take up nitrate if ammonia/ammonium is adequate in balance with the other factors. Aquatic plants use the N from ammonium—not nitrates—to produce their amino acids and proteins. If a plant takes up nitrate, it must convert the nitrate to ammonium in an energy-requiring process called ‘nitrate reduction.’ Plants must expend essentially the same amount of energy (83 Kcal/mol) that the nitrifying bacteria gained in order to convert nitrates back to ammonium. The energy required for plants to reduce nitrates to ammonium is substantial, equivalent to 23% of the energy obtained from glucose metabolism.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top