Unhappy 6" Gold Fish -- Dying?

[Dennis' Mom]

Our golf fish, Dennis, has grown to over 6" body (not counting tail). He used to love to eat. He's in a 20 gal hex. He hardly eats now. For the past 30 days he liked to sit in the air bubble strip. He now sits at the bottom on tank. I really like Dennis -- my son "won" him (tiny, reg sized) 6 years ago. How do I get help? I don't know why he won't eat. Thank you for any advice.

 

[ZebraDanioFan]

First thing you need to do to determine the status of your fish is to test your water parameters for ammonia,nitrite, and nitrate. I think people in this forum would be able to better help you if you list us the conditions in which you are keeping your fish. You should check if your fish has any visible growths on the body or if there are any difference in the physical appearance of the fish. What kind of filtration system do you have on your tank? I don't know where you are in your experience of fish keeping but goldfish tend to be messy tank mates and it is recommend that you have 2x the filtration in your tank with goldfish. Of course these are just "recommendations" and not necessarily the only course of action.

 

[llamalord305]

That goldfish should be in a much much larger tank. try posting in the Tropical Discussion area.

 

[betta989]

its fine llama lord its 20 gal thats pretty big!

 

[aly_starh]

its fine llama lord its 20 gal thats pretty big!

20G Hex, the Gallons are fine, its the shape of the tank we are worried about. The Tanks Stats will be great, but unfortunatley i suspect that his internal organs have grown too much, his growth can very well be stunted.

 

[WILDER]

Goldfish need length in tanks as they grow big.
Also they need double filteration, so the tank need also a 40 gallon filter.

We need to look at your water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.
What do you feed the fish.
Does he look bloated.
What does it look lke when he goes to the toilet.
Is he tilting on his side on the bottom of the tank.
He he acting listless and lethagic.

 

[kelly528]

its fine llama lord its 20 gal thats pretty big!

I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but 20g is far, far, far too small for a goldfish. They need a good 55g for one, then 20g for each additional fish.

We are talking about the biggest waste producer (pound for pound) in the aquarium trade. The smallest a healthy goldfish can possibly grow is 8 inches from head to base of tail.




Can you get any idea of the ammonia? Unfortunately I think he is stunted because of the size of the tank. Fish secrete a hormone into the water that actually inhibits their skeletal growth. If they sense large amounts of their own hormone floating around in the water, their growth is reduced, enabling them to survive in a crowded or small habitat. In aquaria, this phenomenon is mangified dramatically. His skeleton stopped growing years ago, but his organs did not. We'll see what we can do, but be open to euthanising him.

 

[Truck]

but unfortunatley i suspect that his internal organs have grown too much, his growth can very well be stunted.

The organs of a fish will never out grow its own body, nature wouldn't allow it.

here is citation from a paper that backs this up:

from "Development and aging of the liver and pancreas in the domestic carp, Cyprinus carpio: From embryogenesis to 15-year-old fish" by Fishelson L and Becker K in ENVIRONMENTAL BIOLOGY OF FISHES Vol 61 Issume (1) pages 85-97, 2001,

Effect of stunting of juvenile bighead carp Aristichthys nobilis (Richardson) on compensatory growth and reproduction" by Santiago CB, Gonzal AC, Aralar EV, Arcilla RP in AQUACULTURE RESEARCH Vol 35 Issue (9) pages 836-841, JUL 23 2004:

"The carp stunted for 6, 12 and 18 months showed growth compensation, although their weights and lengths were slightly lower than those of the control fish. The body weight and length of fish stunted for 24 months were the lowest throughout the rearing period. Sexual maturation occurred only in the control fish and those stunted for 6 and 12 months. However, the onset of gonad maturity was delayed significantly (P<0.05) in males stunted for 12 months and in both groups of stunted female fish. "

Stunting delayed the development of the fish, but no mention of bulging organs or other deformities.

and have you ever seen a fish with bulging organs? I never have

 

[kelly528]

but unfortunatley i suspect that his internal organs have grown too much, his growth can very well be stunted.

The organs of a fish will never out grow its own body, nature wouldn't allow it.

here is citation from a paper that backs this up:

from "Development and aging of the liver and pancreas in the domestic carp, Cyprinus carpio: From embryogenesis to 15-year-old fish" by Fishelson L and Becker K in ENVIRONMENTAL BIOLOGY OF FISHES Vol 61 Issume (1) pages 85-97, 2001,

Effect of stunting of juvenile bighead carp Aristichthys nobilis (Richardson) on compensatory growth and reproduction" by Santiago CB, Gonzal AC, Aralar EV, Arcilla RP in AQUACULTURE RESEARCH Vol 35 Issue (9) pages 836-841, JUL 23 2004:

"The carp stunted for 6, 12 and 18 months showed growth compensation, although their weights and lengths were slightly lower than those of the control fish. The body weight and length of fish stunted for 24 months were the lowest throughout the rearing period. Sexual maturation occurred only in the control fish and those stunted for 6 and 12 months. However, the onset of gonad maturity was delayed significantly (P<0.05) in males stunted for 12 months and in both groups of stunted female fish. "

Stunting delayed the development of the fish, but no mention of bulging organs or other deformities.

Due to the unique convoluted nature of a goldfish's internal works (as compared to that fo a carp), I would have to see this study performed on goldfish to believe it.

and have you ever seen a fish with bulging organs? I never have

The organs wouldn't necessarily bulge. They may simply exhibit pressure on each other. Think about inflating a bunch of ballons in a barrel. That's enough to kill a fish, no bulging involved.

 

[Truck]

a goldfish is a cyprinid (carp family) so their genetic make up is going to be 99.5+% the same, so I would say that study is pretty representable of a gold fish.

 

[Newgee]

kelly528
you know what she came here for help and advice!!!

if i read "We'll see what we can do, but be open to euthanising him. "
I would not be coming back ...people come here for help not to be told get ready to kill your fish if we can't help you.

please think about your posts and peoples feelings, fish are pets to people just like dogs and cats etc.

Dennis' Mom
Like people have stated above post the water stats please, and any other info relevant to the fish.

Do post back regardless of some posts. we will help.

Regards

Scott

 

[kelly528]

a goldfish is a cyprinid (carp family) so their genetic make up is going to be 99.5+% the same, so I would say that study is pretty representable of a gold fish.

That's true but look at the spinal curvature of a fancy goldfish. They may be in the same genera but the way their organs are crammed into the body cavity aren't remotely the same.

kelly528
you know what she came here for help and advice!!!

if i read "We'll see what we can do, but be open to euthanising him. "
I would not be coming back ...people come here for help not to be told get ready to kill your fish if we can't help you.

I'm here to help, not to sugarcoat things. If the fish is dying from stunting, the most humane thing you can do is end it's discomfort ASAP. I didn't say anything nasty. I just replied honestly.

I am open to the fact that it may be ammonia poisoning, but outlook's not good either way if the fish has been going downhill for 30 days.

 

[Truck]

Fancy goldfish or common goldfish, they're the same species. Organ arangment is the same because they're the same species, look at a diagram of a carps organs, they are identical to that of the golfish because they're both derived from the same common ancestor. Start a thread in the scientific board, you will get the same answer- a fishes organs cannot be bigger in proportion to the rest of the body, many scientific studies prove this.

 

[aly_starh]

but unfortunatley i suspect that his internal organs have grown too much, his growth can very well be stunted.

The organs of a fish will never out grow its own body, nature wouldn't allow it.

here is citation from a paper that backs this up:

from "Development and aging of the liver and pancreas in the domestic carp, Cyprinus carpio: From embryogenesis to 15-year-old fish" by Fishelson L and Becker K in ENVIRONMENTAL BIOLOGY OF FISHES Vol 61 Issume (1) pages 85-97, 2001,

Effect of stunting of juvenile bighead carp Aristichthys nobilis (Richardson) on compensatory growth and reproduction" by Santiago CB, Gonzal AC, Aralar EV, Arcilla RP in AQUACULTURE RESEARCH Vol 35 Issue (9) pages 836-841, JUL 23 2004:

"The carp stunted for 6, 12 and 18 months showed growth compensation, although their weights and lengths were slightly lower than those of the control fish. The body weight and length of fish stunted for 24 months were the lowest throughout the rearing period. Sexual maturation occurred only in the control fish and those stunted for 6 and 12 months. However, the onset of gonad maturity was delayed significantly (P<0.05) in males stunted for 12 months and in both groups of stunted female fish. "

Stunting delayed the development of the fish, but no mention of bulging organs or other deformities.

and have you ever seen a fish with bulging organs? I never have

I have heard and read numerous times that there internal organs will grow which will so much that there ribcage will crush.

Are you telling me thats wrong?

 

[WILDER]

The thread getting of track.

For a common goldfish 20 gallons for the first goldfish and 10 gallons for every other one added.

Fancy goldfish 15 gallons for the first goldfish, then 10 gallons for every other one added.

Don't put the fish down we might be able to help him.

Water stats please.