Unexplained Fish Loss Setup Diary Logs Included

[david0121]

I would be most greatful for some advice on the following -:

Unexplained Fish Loss !!

Arrived home today and found one of our Guarami dead against the filter, Also noticed a black molly, not looking his best, he died shortly after.

Both fish are showing no signs of White Spot or Fin Rot, they looked perfectly normal.

Then i noticed that we had a couple of new additions to the tank "little Black Molly's" after a lot of searching we have been able to find eight in total. "What a Shock"

Now back to my notes on what we have done so far,


2011/04/07 Tank Installation 240 Litres of water 120ml of aqua safe added, Heater set to 26C
2011/04/08 Added first batch of plants Tank Temp is now 24c
2011/04/09 Nutrafin Cycle Day 1 25ml per 40L added 1254ml Tank Temp id now 25c
2011/04/10 Nutrafin Cycle Day 2 10ml Per 40L added 125ml
2011/04/11 Nutrafin Cycle Day 3 10ml Per 40L added 125ml
2011/04/18 Water Sample taken to aquatic shop PH and Nitrite are all ok. Tank Temp is now 26.2 PH is Now 7.5 Nitrite 0.3mg/l
Advised that it's now o.k to add fish.
2011/04/18 Male Guppies x 5
2011/04/18 Female Guppies x 5
2011/04/18 Guarami x 2
2011/04/18 Neon Tetra x 10
2011/04/18 Sail fin pleco x 1
2011/04/19 Female guppy died, Replaced by Shop,
2011/04/19 Guarami x 2 not well always at bottom of the tank and one of them keeps swimming of it's side, Both fish were replaced by Shop.
2011/04/19 Done a water test and the levels are the same as Monday test Tank Temp is now 26.2 PH is now 7.5 Nitrite is now 0.3mg/l
2011/04/19 Pleco is not well falling of the glass.
2011/04/19 Plec died, replaced by shop
2011/04/22 New Fish
Rainbow Shark x 1
Flame Guppy x 2
Metallic Blue Guppy x 2
Dragon Guppy x 2
Silver Molly x 2
Black Molly x 2
Blue Mickey Mouse Platy x 2
2011/04/22 Water Test Results 27 8.0 n/a 0.3mg/l
2011/04/24 Removed 24 Litres of water to clean gravel and refilled treated water with AquaSafe.
2011/04/25 Gourami with Stripes died today
2011/04/25 Black Molly had eight babies (Not expecting that one)
2011/04/25 Water Test Temp 26.8 PH8.0 Nitrite 0.3mg/l


I've sorted out the issue with not been able to put pics on the forum. Simple when you know how!

You can see pics of my setup on my first post, I'm Totally new to keeping tropical Fish.

I look forward to hearing from you soon

Kind regards

David.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

You don't have a cycled tank.

What are your ammonia levels? That is probably the culprit. Too many fish, too fast without enough water changes for a fish-in cycle. But, I am far from an expert. But, this seems to follow the standard, "I followed the advice of my LFS, and all my fish are dying quickly" story that is so often heard.


The nitrites are too high as well, they should always be zero, but certainly not above 0.25 ppm.


I'm sure someone more experienced will come along shortly to confirm this. Have you checked out the Beginner's Resource Center thread? Definitely worth a good long read!!!

 

[fluttermoth]

Hi David, welcome to the forum and the hobby.

As eaglesaquarium has guessed, your tank isn't 'cycled'. This means growing a colony of bacteria in your filter that will process the fish wastes from ammonia, through nitrite, into nitrate, which you remove through water changes.

You added a heck of a lot of fish into an uncycled tank, and if you're not testing for ammonia, you won't know when that is reaching dangerous levels and when to do some huge water changes to get the ammonia down.

Have a read of the articles in our beginner's resource centre (link is in my sig); especially the one on fish-in cycling. Then you can decide whether you want to keep the fish and do a fish-in cycle, or take the fish back and do a fishless one.

In the meantime, lots of water changes with warm, dechlorintaed water will keep your fish safe while you think what you want to do.

Best of luck and don't hesitate to come back with more questions; we're all here to help

 

[Randi]

I too used Nutrafin Cycle to cycle a tank. In my experience, as soon as you stop adding the product it stops working and your tank goes into a natural cycle, but since you have no ammonia readings it's hard to tell if it did anything for your tank at all. Get yourself a liquid test kit and don't rely on the LFS to tell you your levels are good. Also, it's time to read up on fish in cycling. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/

 

[david0121]

Thank you all for your advice, Going out now to buy a complete testing kit, hopefully not to much damage has been done.

 

[david0121]

Ok, just been out and purchased a test kit for ammonia

Tank size:Juwel Rio 240
pH:8.0
ammonia:0.25mg/l
nitrite:
nitrate:0.8mg/l
kH:
gH:
tank temp:26.7

I really need to do more reading on this site to find out more,I would really appreciate some advice on where to go from here

I'm going to start with a 50% water change whilst i await advice...

 

[fluttermoth]

You just need to wait for your colony of bacteria to grow.

If you want to carry on with a fish in cycle (and most people would recommend you return all the fish and do a fishless cycle; it's less hard work and doesn't risk the lives of any fish), test your water every day, and if either the ammonia or nitrite reads anything above zero, do a water change to get it down.

With the amount of fish you have, you may need to be doing very large water changes; 75 or 80% even (this will not stress you fish; don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise!)

If I were you I'd return that sailfin plec ASAP; if it's the species normally sold under that name (Pterygoplichthys gibbiceps) it can grow to 2 feet in length; too big even for your tank, plus all plecs are poop machines; it'll be far easier to regulate your water quality with out it. You can always get a more suitable plec once your tank is cycled.

 

[Sammy1911]

Ok, just been out and purchased a test kit for ammonia

Tank size:Juwel Rio 240
pH:8.0
ammonia:0.25mg/l
nitrite:
nitrate:0.8mg/l
kH:
gH:
tank temp:26.7

I really need to do more reading on this site to find out more,I would really appreciate some advice on where to go from here

I'm going to start with a 50% water change whilst i await advice...

I've bin through exactly what you're going through unfortunately, you've just gotta ride it out now (unless the lfs will accept the fish back!?) and face the fact that you will loose fish until the tank is cycled best advise now is read, read, read keep up frequent water changes but try not to get too attached to the fish as all but the most hardy will perish... it sounds harsh of me I know, but like I said I've just gone through the same thing and have now got a nice looking tank and funnily enough have changed my mind completely on the fish I want (I also went with mollys and platys but they weren't to my liking so I haven't restocked them). It's a steep learning curve but you will learn so much from it - I have!

+1 re plec - take a look at the corydoras, otocinclus or siamese algae eaters as an alternative

Good luck!

 

[Loui354]

Hi
I agree with the other postings here. When we first set up our tank we decided to cycle using fish (some people may disagree with this method) and decided on Glowlight Tetras as these are fairly hardy (we still have them now 12 months later). We purchased the API water testing kit and checked pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Once your tank starts to cycle (I would advise reading up on this-there are plenty of sites) it can take a few weeks for sufficient bacteria to build up to allow complete cycling at which point pH should be around neutral, ammonia should be 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate under 40. In your case it sounds like the tank has not cycled and there is a build up of toxins that are poisoning the fish. I would advise continuing with large water changes and keep testing the water. Continue to add the cycle bacteria and tapsafe with every water change. If you can return any of the fish do as there are a lot of them in the tank for such a new tank and each one will be adding to the ammonia load through their waste. There are also sites that advise the ideal number/size of fish for a particular tank size. Also try not to add too much food as this all adds to the waste load.
It can get really disheartening when you are setting up a tank for the first time but keep with it and you will soon be rewarded with a tank of happy, healthy fish.

 

[david0121]

50% water changed,

levels are as follows -:

Ammonia :Nil
PH :8.0
Nitrite :0.3mg/l
Temp :26.8

Also tested tap water ph : 9.0

What would you suggest to test for in the water, I'm only testing Ammonia, PH, Nitrite,???

 

[Randi]

At some point you will need to test for NitrAtes, as you don't want your level to go above 40. But ammonia and nitrItes are the most important as they are toxic to fish at any level. The bacteria that eats ammonia will produce nitrites, and the bacteria that eats nitrites will produce nitrates. So once you start getting consistent zero readings for the first two the nitrates will rise. I wouldn't worry too much about the pH it should stabilize once your tank is finished cycling. A stable pH is much more important that the 'perfect' pH so I would advise against adding any pH altering products. Really, the only product you need to add to your tank is a good dechlorinator when you do your water changes. You may also want to increase the temperature in your tank a little. Most fish (and your bacteria) prefer warmer water, around 78. Be patient and do your water changes and everything will work out. Good luck!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

50% water changed,

levels are as follows -:

Ammonia :Nil
PH :8.0
Nitrite :0.3mg/l
Temp :26.8

Also tested tap water ph : 9.0

What would you suggest to test for in the water, I'm only testing Ammonia, PH, Nitrite,???

Is that pH value straight from the tap, or after it has sat out for a little while? Is it before dechlorination or after?

 

[david0121]

50% water changed,

levels are as follows -:

Ammonia :Nil
PH :8.0
Nitrite :0.3mg/l
Temp :26.8

Also tested tap water ph : 9.0

What would you suggest to test for in the water, I'm only testing Ammonia, PH, Nitrite,???

Is that pH value straight from the tap, or after it has sat out for a little while? Is it before dechlorination or after?

The water was straight from the tap

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The water was straight from the tap

What are the parameters after dechlorinating and allowed to sit for an hour or more?

 

[david0121]

The water ph after standing changed to 8.0 and also same result for after dechlorination

Once again thank you to all of the responces