Unexpected Molly Babies Help!

[Miss Wiggle]

ok calm, deep breaths!

yes please do get the name of the bacteria powder someone may know if it's any good, however it's unlikley that it's done you a lot of good.

the parameters you need to worry about for now are ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, please double check these readings and let us know which one is which.

ammonia is most toxic, nitrite is less toxic but still bad, nitrate is only toxic in very large quantities (the dangers of nitrate are still under some debate but for now if you work to keeping it under 40ppm while you sort out all your other levels it'll be ok)

if you read the link i gave you earlier it explains the relationship between the three of them.

 

[scorphonic]

WOAH WOAH slow down! too much info! Are my fish in danger?

Your GF is right, Nitrites are more dangerous than nitrates.

When a tank is cycled ( enough bacteria in your filter sponge) there will be no Ammonia or Nitrite detectable in the water. If there is enough ammonia or nitrite in the water to register a reading then your fish will not be happy and this is a sign that you are not fully cycled at all.

What I was saying earlier is that you can do a fishless cycle where you add in an ammonia source from a bottle (which you can buy in a supermarket or hardware store as pure ammonia in water). Obviously doing it this way there are no fish involved so any mistakes or high levels of ammonia/nitrites or very high levels of nitrates are not going to harm anything!!

The fish that you have in your tank are possibly not the strongest fish to use to cycle a tank and this is why one probably died already. If you monitor your fish and if you notice that over time their gills turn red (on the outside!!) then this is a sign that the ammonia/nitrites are effecting them.

Just keep up your water changes as this will reduce the toxins in the water and hopefully the fish will all pull through. (most probably will...but its not nice loosing any!! )

The "bacteria in a bottle" potions rarely work. The only product that I know to work is "biospira", this must be kept in the fridge so if your's didn't come from a fridge then it more than likely wont work (or isn't biospira in the first place!!!)

 

[thedragonreborn]

hey i gave my stats of my tank above.right bad news, Moma molly has died and so has another neon, she was ok then my mother found her on the bottom of the tank( yes she was definately dead) and apparently (i havent seen him/her today) another neon looks a bit iffy. Is it because it's not cycled properly yet or am i not meant to have fish? The baby molly's are happy and eating fine (growing fast) could this be because they were born into the tank and so are adapted whereas the others were moved?
thanx
x
p.s none of them have shown signs of any redness at all (the neons lost some of their colour) but no redness around gills or anything (they all seems to go to the heater to die, is this normal or...?)

 

[Jozlyn]

What sort of a test kit are you using? The paper strips? If it's the paper strips then you've wasted your money, unfortunately they're very unreliable.

You need to have a set of liquid base kits, I've found the ones with the powder to be awkward to use and not very accurate either.

So you need: Amonia, NitrIte and NitrAte kits you need to do the tests and post the results ASAP. Ph, Kh & Gh are really not as important at the moment and the PH test results will fluctuate because your tank is still cycling. You need to carefully note the results of each test and post them. No more "I think it's Nitrite" or "I can't remember" etc, write them down!

In my last post to you I suggested that you start doing 50% daily water changes, are you or your mum doing this? This will dilute the high levels of amonia and nitrite to a more tolerable, although still not safe, level.

You also need to give your substrate a good vacuuming to remove excess fish and food waste

The molly's death is difficult as there are a number of factors that need to be considered. You don't know how old she was to begin with and mollies often die after birth. The birth in combination with the stress of poor water conditions is most likely why she died.

As for the Neon's they're very delicate fish and the toxins in the water are most likely what is killing them, red gills or not.

When my fish are on the way out, they tend to hang around the top of the filter or heater because (now this is only my opinion) they're in corners, away from the other fish and semi-private, I could be wrong, there may be some other reason but that's how it looks to me. Also sometimes if they feel the need to gulp air then they're closer to the surface and it requires less effort on their part to get to the top.

Edit> Your are using a water dechlorinator/conditioner aren't you?

 

[thedragonreborn]

Yes i am using a dechlorinator-that's the tap safe type liquid you add to the water before adding it to the tank isn't it. Right I havent found out the name of that stuff yet because i didn't think i would get on the net this soon so please be patient, i filled my tank added the water purifier stuff, the bacteria stuff and left it for four days. This i was told was the minimum, and why are the strip tests unreliable? They use them in schools so surely they have to be up to some sort of official standard! And i'm just goin to have to deal with the strip tests because i can't afford another set of tests at the moment, i have to pay college fees this month. This whole fish keeping business has becomeso much more complicated over the last few years, how come when my grandad kept fish he didn't have all these test and gadgets (obviously he had filter n heater) so how come his survived so long and happily when i've done all the "recommended" things by experience fish keepers this forum and other places, books and all. and MY fish are still dying aaaarrrggghhhh!!!! i might just give up see how it goes with the fish i got left and if they die so be it end of subject! If my water levels are so lethal how come my babies havent died?. Please someone help me!

 

[Jozlyn]

The paper test strips are not very accurate, what you need is the most accurate test available. What you use at school has no bearing, at school you are experimenting and don't need to be 100% accurate!

Your local fish shop is a business, as such they're out to make money! If your fish die, you most likely wont blame them, you'll just go and buy some more! You'll probably also find that they actually know very little about the fish and the products they're selling. If they did they wouldn't have sold you the bacteria (which rarely if ever works) and told you to leave your tank for 4 days! They also wouldn't have sold you the paper test strips, they'd would've advised you to purchase the liquid kits. Do you get where I'm coming from here

The fish your grandfather kept, would most likely have been stronger than the ones you buy from the LFS today. The water he used for his tanks would not have been as contaminated as it is today! And I feel confident the variety of fish available now, would not have been available then. As for the "gadgets" I don't know what you're referring to there, the only "gadget" I have besides the filter and heater is a thermometer to make sure the water's the right temperature!

Given that you can't afford new test kits, that's fine you just have to work with what you have, just do water changes everyday for the next 3 - 4 weeks, that will give your filter bacteria a chance to build up. And don't clean your filter under the tap, only rinse it in used tank water, the tap water will kill off your bacteria and you'll have to start all over again.

Is there any chance you can post your latest test results please.

As for why your fry are surviving, I don't know, I will leave that one for others, perhaps they're just naturally stronger than the older fish because they're so young.

 

[thedragonreborn]

Hey everyone thanks for your help, sorry about my freak out aswell . Well everyone is still alive and i have new additions to the tank aswell. I have bought liquid kits now and everything is going swimmigly (see what i did ther lol) . My new additions are 3 blue tailed guppies, a darkpurple alomst black tailed guppy, 1 with like a leopard pattern all over it, 1 with a tail like a flame (orange then going red at the end), 1 like the previous 1 (but brighter) with a black body and black spots on his tail aswell. I've also just got a coolie loach who is truly stunning. everyone is happy and getting along fine. Just finished dealing with a white spot infection but all i ok, thankyou everyone.
talk to you soon

 

[fishlette]

Haha, grandfather!!

Since you have cycled your tank (I hope!!) you should wait at least a week between adding new fish. This isn't a set time wait though. I was able to stock my tank fully in one week but that was because I had seeded my filters with loads of bacteria before finishing my fishless cycle.

Your best adding small amount over time (say a week or so) if you are uncertain about the bacterial colony in your filters. Since you will probably have fry again, get some food for fry. I would highly recommend getting brine shrimp eggs. These can be hatched relatively easily using a salt water solution (not household salt however, i'm using Marine salt) and aeration using a cheap cheap cheap air pump!!. Search the web for brine shrimp hatcherys...they can be made at home from small bottles of your choice!!

Also you can buy a solution called "Liquifry #2". This is good to use in the first few days of fry life and then you should introduce them to the brine shrimp and then slowly ween them onto finely powdered flake food and then onto the same size flake food that you use for your other fish!!

If you can think of a nice clean way to powder the flake food....let me know!! I'm still learning myself.

use a mortar and pestle works wonders

The paper test strips are not very accurate, what you need is the most accurate test available. What you use at school has no bearing, at school you are experimenting and don't need to be 100% accurate!

Your local fish shop is a business, as such they're out to make money! If your fish die, you most likely wont blame them, you'll just go and buy some more! You'll probably also find that they actually know very little about the fish and the products they're selling. If they did they wouldn't have sold you the bacteria (which rarely if ever works) and told you to leave your tank for 4 days! They also wouldn't have sold you the paper test strips, they'd would've advised you to purchase the liquid kits. Do you get where I'm coming from here

The fish your grandfather kept, would most likely have been stronger than the ones you buy from the LFS today. The water he used for his tanks would not have been as contaminated as it is today! And I feel confident the variety of fish available now, would not have been available then. As for the "gadgets" I don't know what you're referring to there, the only "gadget" I have besides the filter and heater is a thermometer to make sure the water's the right temperature!

Given that you can't afford new test kits, that's fine you just have to work with what you have, just do water changes everyday for the next 3 - 4 weeks, that will give your filter bacteria a chance to build up. And don't clean your filter under the tap, only rinse it in used tank water, the tap water will kill off your bacteria and you'll have to start all over again.

Is there any chance you can post your latest test results please.

As for why your fry are surviving, I don't know, I will leave that one for others, perhaps they're just naturally stronger than the older fish because they're so young.

if you cant afford a test kit, take your water to a reputable lfs and get them to test it and show you the results against the test colour cards. write down the stats and post them here

 

[TribeOfShroom]

You can't have a Betta with the neon's, as the neon's will nip at his fins. Betta's and guppies can not be kept together as the Betta will fight with them and you will have fish carnage! There's not too much that can share a tank with a Betta! You need to up the amount of neon's you have to at least 5 as they are schooling fish and need to be in a group. I believe the loaches need a sand substrate so if you have gravel you either need to change to sand or not get the loaches. A nice small plec is the Bristlenose Catfish.

Sorry to go off topic here, but you can keep loaches if you have gravel as your substrate. Coarse gravel is definately not reccomended, but if you can get hold of some fine gravel then loaches are an option for tankmates.