Un-Cycled Disaster

[Guppyz]

About a week and a half ago I started a tank with guppies. No one told me anything about cycling tanks. So the guppies started dying and I kept buying more to replace the dead ones. So now 6 of the 11 gupies I have bought have died. One by one they start acting sick and one by one they keep dying. Of course now is when I hear about tank cycling. I found an article which tells me how to try to save the five fish I have left and cycle my tank in the meantime. So now i am doing 10% water changes every day (past 4 days) and I am looking for matured gravel and filter media. I am also going to add an air stone. The wierd thing is that my nitrite levals are almost down to zero. (I have watched the nitrite leval decrease over the last few days. And my ammonia levals read safe (close to ideal) I have just stared to test for ammonia so I dont know if the levals used to be higher. Are there any types of fish that would help my tank cycle? Does anyone have any tips to help me save my fish? Im going to try to get that stuff that help cycle tanks and Im going to get some live plants to bring down the ammonia.

 

[Smells a bit fishy]

Ok, first don't get those products in a bottle, they simply don't work.

Second, with fish in cycling, you want to keep the levels of ammonia and nitrite below 0.25 ppm. So if your readings were 1ppm and you did a 10% water change that you ate doing that would only bring it down to 0.9 ppm. For that level you would need to do a 90% water change, which will bring the levels of ammonia and nitrite to 0.1ppm.

So if I were you, keep the fish you have, don't add any more, and do a 90% water change or just enough water left so the fish can swim upright, then top up with fresh, temp matched dechlorinated water.

I hope that makes sense and keep us posted

Oh btw don't be too hard on yourself, I was and many others were in the same position you are now. You have come to the right place to get you back to where your fish will be happy

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The only thing that you can do is water changes.... lots and lots of massive water changes.

First, calm down. This happens to a lot of folks.

Second, do you have a liquid reagent ammonia, nitrite test kit?


Third, do as large a water change as you can immediately. Remove as much water from the tank as you can, it should leave just enough water in the tank for the fish to be able to just be able to swim upright. Then refill with temp matched dechlorinated water. This will lower the ammonia levels of your tank, and the fish will have a little time to recover.

Fourth, test every 12 hours until the ammonia/nitrite levels stay under 0.25ppm. Eventually, you will be able to go 24 hours without needing a change. Then, you will go 36, then 48, etc. The tank is cycled when you can go a full week without an ammonia or nitrite spike.


The water changes that you do should be as large and as frequent as necessary to keep the toxins unreadable on the test kit. By doing a series of tests every 12 hours, you will be able to find the rhythm of your tank.

While taking water out, be sure to be doing a thorough gravel vac, removing every little bit of detritus that you can from the tank. The detritus will build up ammonia as well.

Also, reduce (drastically) your feeding. Your fish have a stomach about the size of their eye. That amount of food once a day is plenty. They can also go days without food, without a problem. I would suggest you cut your feedings to the amount mentioned every other day, until the ammonia levels are properly under control. Once you go several days without needing to do a water change, increase the feedings slightly. Fast them every three days. Most fishkeepers fast their fish at least once a week normally.


It will be ok. Just stay patient. Folks will be here to help you.

 

[gasmask]

90% water change is not the way to go.

 

[Smells a bit fishy]

It has been proven that doing large water changes doesnt change the amount of bacteria in your filter, as the filter harbours 99% maybe more of the bacteria, the tank will still cycle with trace amounts of ammonia and nitrite, your fish won't stop producing ammonia/nitrite just because you have done a large water change

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Gasmask, that information is incorrect. The bacteria that being cultivated during a cycle need only trace amounts in the tank to have sufficient food for them to survive and even thrive. The work by Dr. Tim Havonec indicates that the levels you want are on the order of 0.17ppm or less for nitrite bacteria (nitrospira) as an example.


Remember that in a "mature" tank, the ammonia levels are ALWAYS so low that they cannot be read by our crude testing kits....yet the bacteria MUST be surviving, otherwise the tank would be in a constant cycle.



Levels of ammonia or nitrite at a level at or above 0.25ppm is toxic to fish, and as a FISHKEEPER, it should be the goal of the aquarist to do everything possible to keep the fish healthy. A properly done fish-in cycle (see link in sig) can be successfully done, but it always includes massive and frequent water changes.

Guppyz,

You might want to get yourself a dechlorinator that also deals with ammonia and nitrite, such as Prime. Do not get any of the "ammo-lock" type products, nor any of the bacteria in a bottle products. They just don't work. They will cause the ammonia levels to drop, but the bacteria you need will be starved during the process. And as soon as you stop adding the chemicals, the ammonia levels will rise even faster than before, leaving you worse off in the end.

 

[gasmask]

I just think doing a 90% water change is the simply the way to go about cycling a tank that's all.

I have Aquariums totaling probably 1000's of gallons with very large, heavy waste producing fish filtered with quite high tech filters and pond filtration.
I am well aware of the cycling process.

It should have never had fish in it in the first place.
The OP didn't have the know how to cycle a tank in the first place, and people are telling him to do MASSIVE water changes?
So he will have knowledge of quite possible situations such as ph shock, temp shock etc from doing such a huge change?

 

[KittyKat]

I just think doing a 90% water change is the simply the way to go about cycling a tank that's all.

I have Aquariums totaling probably 1000's of gallons with very large, heavy waste producing fish filtered with quite high tech filters and pond filtration.

To be fair, you are not in the same situation as OP. A fish in a 5 gallon will give you quite a different concentration of ammonia than the same fish in a 1000 gallon tank, as you know.

It should have never had fish in it in the first place.
The OP didn't have the know how to cycle a tank in the first place, and people are telling him to do MASSIVE water changes?
So he will have knowledge of quite possible situations such as ph shock, temp shock etc from doing such a huge change?

You are right that it should not, but now it does so that's what the OP has to work with, unless they're willing to take the fish back to the LFS and cycle from scratch.

You are right that temperature shock is an issue, which is why the OP was told to match temperature (although it would have been useful is someone had explained why). As for pH shock, as it is, there is less chance of that then the fish dying from ammonia poisoning. Still, the OP should check their tap water parameters against their tank water parameters, if they can, to see if they are similar for pH.

 

[Guppyz]

Thank you for all the great answers! Im getting mixed answers though. Ive been doing the small water changes for the last few days. I wish my water vac was working so I could get the amonia abundent water at the bottom. I am going to a great fish store today where I am going to get a liquid test. But at the moment I am using a paper stick test. The paper stick test is giving me some problems because I cant tell whether it reads .25 or .5. For now I am going to do 2 moderate water changes daily and track my levels every 12 hours as sugested. And thanks for warning me about those fake cycling products. So are there any fish that I could add to help my tank cycle? Any plants?

 

[fluttermoth]

Plants always help in fish-in cycles; they do use up small amounts of ammonia (and nitrate) that will be of some small help.

There are no fish that will help the cycle go faster; they'll just add to the ammonia load and mean it builds up even quicker and so needing even more water changes!

 

[This Old Spouse]

Do you have any friends that also have aquariums that have been set up for a good long while? If so, see if you can get some of their filter media to put in your filter. Also, maybe the great LFS you go to could give you some filter media that's already matured. If you add this to your filter, your cycling will happen almost immediately. It's how we've set up all 6 of our tanks here at home, and we haven't lost a fish because of cycling problems yet.

 

[KittyKat]

Any undemanding plants should be fine, maybe try Java moss and a floater like water lettuce.

I wish my water vac was working so I could get the amonia abundent water at the bottom.

If your circulation is good enough, then there should be no difference in anything about the water between different areas of the tank. Vacuums are good because they collect the fish crap (which releases ammonia as it decomposes).. what about it is not working?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I am sorry that you are getting conflicting information regarding the water changes, but the key element is that you want to make sure that your ammonia and nitrite stay below 0.25ppm at all times. Any time that you see the levels at or above 0.25ppm, you need to do a water change. The water change needs to be sufficiently large to lower the value below 0.25ppm.


For example, if your value is 1.0ppm, you would need to do at least a 75% water change to get the level below 0.25ppm. Smaller water changes are all that are necessary once the cycle is completed. However, with smaller volume tanks, bigger water changes are still a good idea - 30-50%.

The reason that I suggested a 90% water change is that I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that your ammonia levels were elevated. My assumption was based on the fish deaths that you described. A 10% daily water change that is suffering from ammonia poisoning isn't actually going to lower the levels significantly. Your fish are still producing more ammonia than the bacteria colony can handle. The 10% water change - best case scenario - is keeping the level from rising any higher, but it isn't going to fix the initial problem.


For example, if your value was 1.0ppm, but you only do a 10% water change, the level drops only to 0.9ppm, which is still WAY too high for the fish. And the fish will quickly produce that amount again. The bacteria will start to grow, but this process can take weeks, not hours. So, the fish will quickly end up in much higher ammonia levels by the end of the next day. (A fully stocked bioload in a tank will produce approximately 4ppm ammonia daily. Excess food, or dead fish will produce even more. Hence, why I suggest the LARGE water change to start with.) A 90% water change will lower the ammonia level drastically, and will enable the fish more time before the ammonia levels rise back up to toxic levels again.


Be sure to temp match the water when you replace the water, as a temp shock can be detrimental to the fish, but the impact of temp shock or pH shock is a minor concern compared to having the fish swimming around in poison. Seriously, read the fish-in cycle linked in my sig. This isn't just "my opinion" about keeping the fish safe. (While the thread I linked suggested a 50% water change, it also assumes that your values won't be much above 0.50ppm before you are doing a water change. I assumed your values are well above that range, probably closer to 2.0ppm or more.)