Two Dead Fish-Bloated/tiny Worms?

[Fish_Girl]

Hi all,

I got 4 Guppies a week and a half ago-see this thread:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/324915-fish-suggestionspics-wguppies/

I only had 5 ADF's and 2 oto's in a rekord 60. One of the Guppies died a few days after getting them and yesterday we found one of our Oto's dead too.

In the last week when i have been looking in the tank i have noticed these really tiny white worms-you would have to really stare hard to see them. I wondered if this could be the cause of whats going on as the Oto that died and the remaining Oto both appear bloated.

We have treated the tank yesterday with Interpet Anti internal bacteria as the Guppies and Oto also are a little red looking in places.

Can anyone shed some light on this, in particular these wierd worms? we havent been able to get any live plants yet and havent had any in the tank for a while. These are the only new fish we have got and hadnt had any newbs in the tank for more then 6 months.

 

[ellena]

They sound like planaria which flourish in water with ammonia in it. They won't be the cause of the deaths but are a sign of raised ammonia levels which are responsible. Adding the guppies will have just about doubled your bioload and the filter will need time to catch up. While it does, you need to keep an eye on the ammonia levels and do lots of water changes to keep them below 0.25ppm.
Do you have a test kit?

 

[Fish_Girl]

They sound like planaria which flourish in water with ammonia in it. They won't be the cause of the deaths but are a sign of raised ammonia levels which are responsible. Adding the guppies will have just about doubled your bioload and the filter will need time to catch up. While it does, you need to keep an eye on the ammonia levels and do lots of water changes to keep them below 0.25ppm.
Do you have a test kit?

Yes i tested the water yesterday and all was fine except the ammonia which was a little high, not drastically though. I did a search for the worms you mentioned and it definately isnt those-the ones i am seeing are literally about 1mm in width(if that!) and then various lengths. i have actually seen the Guppies eating them The remaining Oto isnt looking very good, extremely bloated now. Im really regretting getting the Guppies at this point in time as I'd had those Oto's for a while

 

[ellena]

There are lots of images, most massively magnified, out there. This is the best I've found, looks just like what I had

You can see the pic I tried to take on my thread http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=294215&st=0&p=2429720&fromsearch=1&#entry2429720
Any levels of ammonia are something to be worried about and are enough for the worms to start to multiply. They can get into gills and cause irritation, but they won't kill fish.
How long has the tank been set up?

 

[Fish_Girl]

There are lots of images, most massively magnified, out there. This is the best I've found, looks just like what I had

You can see the pic I tried to take on my thread http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=294215&st=0&p=2429720&fromsearch=1&#entry2429720
Any levels of ammonia are something to be worried about and are enough for the worms to start to multiply. They can get into gills and cause irritation, but they won't kill fish.
How long has the tank been set up?

Nope its definately not those worms, i wouldnt even be able to photograph these things they are that tiny. when i said they were 1mm earlier thats actually much too big they honestly are that small, i would be shocked if most other people would ever notice them. i just happen to notice things like that

We would have started doing water changes for the ammonia but as we treated the tank with the anti internal obviously we couldnt also do a water change. We have had the tank 4 years now and it was already an established tank for a couple of years before we got it(the OH's dad gave it to us, water and all lol)

The frogs all seem to be fine, but then we have had them for nearly 3 years now and they have survived through diseases our other fish havent so they seem very hardy little guys. The Oto i am worried about, he is really bloated. I have a bad feeling, but i hope im wrong

It does seem like its something the Guppies have brought in, the tank had been absolutely fine for ages now, we get the Guppies and we lose one, lose an Oto and the other Oto is ill-stupid fish shop

Hope someone can shed some light on what could be happening and what these tiny tiny worm things are.

 

[Mauricia]

Well that photograph is magnified a lot so it sounds like your worms are planaria. Otos are very sensitive to ammonia, so even a small spike could kill them. The new guppy is already stressed from the move so ammonia is likely to kill them too. I think your first step is to do water changes and get the ammonia under control.

 

[ellena]

Why can't you do water changes just because you've medicated? Just replace the meds in the water you change. There's no evidence you have a bacterial infection to treat, but you know your ammonia is too high, so please address that issue. The meds will be doing no good in a tank full of ammonia anyway. Like giving someone antibiotics while they're sat in a gas chamber.
I looks as though your guppies have bought the problem and they have in a way, because they have overloaded your filter and caused an ammonia spike. But they haven't bought an illness with them, or the worms. The worms live in tanks all the time and just have population explosions when the environment is right, ie lots of ammonia. They will be planaria, mine were absolutely tiny, looks like tiny white bits floating in the water, then I thought I saw them move, thought I was imagining things. I have a very good macro camera, and even that could ony get that fuzzy shot of one on the glass.
What test kit are you using? You need to keep ammonia below 0.25ppm as that's the level when it starts to burn gills. So if your reading is 0.5, you need to change half, then half again an hour later to get the level below 0.25. Of course, in that hour, it will have gone up again, so you're going to have some hard work on your hands keeping the water clean while the filter bacteria catchup.
Please, please, please, do some serious water changes now and get your fish out of the poisonous environment which is currently killing them off.

Just looking at your pics in the other thread, do you actually have a filter in there? I can see a bubble stone in a tube, but no filter media. Is it undergravel?

 

[Fish_Girl]

Well it seems it is Planaria we have After having an even closer look at the tank today i can see absolutely loads of tiny ones and loads attached to the glass. It was the photos and descriptions of them that were making me think otherwise, but yes i do agree that is what they are. We are going to do a big water change now, how many and how often should we be looking at doing to bring down the ammonia levels? The reason we treated the tank with the anti internal is because it seemed like the Oto's had two of the symptoms(abdominal swelling and redding under the skin) and we werent completely convinced about it being planaria until today. We also didnt realise that the ammonia levels being only a tiny bit off(they literally were just a little bit off according to the interpet easy test chart) could cause so many problems and lead to deaths of the Oto's. Unfortunately we lost the other Oto today Really wishing we had just done water changes to begin with, but we arent the most knowledgeable fish owners and as i mentioned, we werent convinced about the Planaria, or realised how much the ammonia could effect the Oto's(thanks for explaining about them being so sensitive to it Mauricia)

So im assuming the water changes are to bring the ammonia levels down only and not to get rid of the planaria problem-any ideas what to do there? i know bringing the levels down will also get rid of alot of the planaria from what ive read, but it seems we may need to take other measures to completely rid ourselves of them?

And yes ellena, it is an undergravel filter we have.

 

[ellena]

You could try a med like sterazin. Wilder recommended that to me when I had planaria. But Once your ammonia goes down, they will just disappear.
What was your ammonia reading? You could do with an API liquid test kit, they are more accurate than most.
Someone on here has a signature which says, if in doubt, water change, which is very good advice