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Turtles and fish

Discussion in 'Amphibians & Aquatic Reptiles' started by emg., Oct 9, 2018.

  1. Byron

    Byron Member

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    The thinking behind this is a bit misunderstood, though there is validity. Plants during photosynthesis (which is driven by light so occurring in daylight) take up CO2 as a macronutrient. Oxygen is a by-product and is released through the roots (primarily) and leaves. At the same time, plants, like fish and some bacteria species, are respirating "normally," taking in oxygen and releasing CO2. This respiration is 24/7 regardless of anything else. The CO2 taken up during photosynthesis is considerably greater than what is expelled through respiration. So during daylight, all this causes the CO2 to diminish, and the pH will usually rise slightly.

    During darkness, the photosynthesis ceases. Respiration continues normally, though with fish at decreased levels because they are not as active (unless nocturnal species). In very heavily planted tanks, or tanks with too many fish for the biological balance, oxygen can become depleted and CO2 increase accordingly. The easy way to deal with this, in addition to not overloading the fish, is to have good surface disturbance. This can be continuous, day and night. In high-tech planted tanks where CO2 is being added by diffusion to boost the plants, these units are turned off during the period of darkness, and sometimes additional aeration is provided to ensure a good exchange of oxygen/CO2 at the surface. My tanks are all planted, with thick floating plants, so I simply ensure there is surface disturbance 24/7 and I have had no issues.

    Nothing is a beneficial as a partial water change. And you cannot change too much water. The aim of these changes is to ensure stability in the water chemistry. This is another advantage of selecting fish suited to your source water parameters--water changes are not a problem, ever. A biologically balanced tank will establish a fairly stable chemistry; provided water changes are regular and substantial, this is not going to change. Now, we are assuming the parameters are relatively close; GH, KH and pH should be much the same [another reason why adjusting these for specific fish is problematical], and temperature is easily controlled manually at the tap. Slightly cooler fresh water is usually advisable as it stimulates fish, frequently into spawning, since it replicates the tropical rainstorms. Of course, if one is again messing with prepared water the temp can be an issue.

    Note: The only exception here is if you ignore the tank long enough for the biological system to fail, such as an overcrowded tank or overfed fish with no water changes. Even here, a major water change is beneficial, except if the pH has become acidic in the tank and the fresh water pH is above 7. This sudden influx of "basic" pH water can cause the tank pH to rise above 7, and the problem with this is that the ammonia in the water which was ammonium in an acidic pH and thus not toxic, immediately changes to toxic ammonia, often killing the fish within minutes.

    Filters need regular cleaning and this too impacts stability. The brown gunk that accumulates is organics and these need to be controlled. This is a main cause of nitrates, and nitrates are toxic to all our fish so keeping nitrates as low as possible is always best.

    My tanks all have internal sponge filters, except for the 90g which has a canister. The sponge filters I rinse under the tap at every water change. The canister I clean every couple of months. This tank is way under-populated so I don't worry too much; the buildup of organics in the hoses which can noticeably slow the water flow is what usually triggers a filter cleaning. But regular filter cleaning/rinsing is important most of the time.
     
  2. Byron

    Byron Member

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    With live plants, you do not want to be using carbon or any other chemical media. This is removing some of the nutrients the plants can use.

    However, we are forgetting that there are turtles and fish together, and this is not advisable or good. I have been dealing with "fish" issues in my posts, attempting to explain that side of things which is what you initially asked about. Turtles in the tank are a major issue to water quality and fish health.
     
  3. emg.

    emg. New Member

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    Yea true, well im using carbom for now for the tanning so havent got any plants yet. Just didnt know that plants help control ammonia significantly which can help.

    I know the turtle and fish do not fit together either, i will move them soon hopefully, i like my turtles but they do seem a little more high maintenance than the fish for the fact of how much waste they produce. So thanks to your information i know more on how to keep water healthy and keep everything in its natural cycle as much as possible but still need to searh a little more but youve provided inital really helpful information. What kind of tanks.do you own ?

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  4. Byron

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    At present I have a dedicated fish room with eight tanks, all with fish and plants. Many years ago (1980's) I had amphibians, and turtles. Today, I have geographic biotope tanks primarily, 40 gallon flooded Amazon forest, 70 gallon Amazon stream, 90 gallon riverscape (Asian), and tanks with fry growing out.
     
  5. emg.

    emg. New Member

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    Wow very nice, congratulations. How did it work out for you when you had your turtles ? I hope to soon have at least 2 or 3 dedicated fish tanks, i really would like to own a reef tank with corals, and 2 freshwater for amazonian habitat and small school fish but still need to learn more. Thankfully my current tank is well fitted in size and equipment to get started

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  6. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    If you want plants to use nutrients, start with fast growing floating plants like Duckweed and Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta). Most floating plants are faster growing than plants growing in the gravel and this means the faster growing plants can use more nutrients.

    If you have a couple of filters on the tank, you can clean one each week. Do the HOB this week and the canister next week, then the HOB the week after that and so on.

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    Salt water tanks are pretty easy and have the advantage that the water is sea water and has to be made that way. There's no soft acid water in marine tanks, it's all hard alkaline and salty. With marine tanks you either collect natural sea water from a clean beach or make up salt water using artificial marine salts that are added to a bucket of dechlorinated water and aerated/ circulated for 24 hours. This water is then used for water changes.

    The filtration cycle is generally the same, however you can use rocks as the filter instead of filter media, but a power filter is useful to pick up sediment that would normally get trapped under rocks.

    Reef tanks have more light than freshwater tanks and you monitor the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH, calcium and salinity. :)
     
  7. emg.

    emg. New Member

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    Hey thanks for all your input i am surely looking forward into getting those plants and a couple other to help remove ammonia. Also already did my canister maintenance just need to replace a filter pad now but everything is well so far. I have 1 question, i noticed today in the morning 1 of my cichlids had a string attached to his bottom. It was about an inch, in about 20 mins it was about 1/4 longer, i had to leave to work so couldnt monitor any more, should i be worried today and check when i get back home until the night ?? Its a pinkish long string [​IMG]

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  8. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    The fish probably needs more roughage (plant matter) in its diet. Otherwise it could have intestinal worms. You can use Praziquantel to treat them for gill flukes & tapeworms, and Levamisole to treat them for thread/ round worms.

    You treat them once a week for 3 weeks and do a 75% water change 24-48 hours after treating. Don't use the medications together because you can overdose the fish and kill them.

    The easiest way to treat them is to use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

    The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treating for 3 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs.
     
  9. emg.

    emg. New Member

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    Okay what do you mean otherwise ? Its a possibility is not a parasite worm ?? My concern is if I should be worried as soon as i get home? Cause i wont have anything until this saturday to go and buy the medication from my local pet store. So basically i wont be able to do much besides do a 25% water chnage. Will that non treatment for w days affect my fish current condition and also the others in there too? The turtles and 6 other fish ?

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  10. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Fish normally do a dark coloured poop that comes out and falls off in a few minutes. If the fish eats lots of plant matter it will usually be green. If the fish eats lots of high protein meat based foods it will be dark brown.

    If the poop is white and stringy the fish can have an internal bacterial or protozoan infection. With an internal bacterial infection they usually bloat up rapidly (over 12-48 hours), do stringy white poop, stop feeding and breath heavily on the bottom or at the surface or by a filter outlet. They normally die within a few days of showing these symptoms.

    If they have an internal protozoan infection they have a stringy white poop and start to lose weight rapidly (over a week they become skinny). They might stop feeding but not always. They usually die within a week of showing symptoms.

    Fish with intestinal worms can do normal poop or stringy white poop (depending on how much food they get and how many worms are inside the fish). They continue eating normally and usually get skinny over a period of a month or more. If a fish is heavily infested with intestinal worms, the fish might get really fat and look like a pregnant guppy. However, once these fish are dewormed they become skinny within 24 hours of being treated, and then they slowly start to regain weight.

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    If the fish are still eating and not doing stringy white poop or gasping at the surface, then it is most likely worms and you have plenty of time to get medication to treat them.

    Most fish have worms and in small numbers they are not adversely affected by them. However, when the worms build up in numbers they drain the blood from the fish and the fish becomes anaemic and eventually dies from secondary infections (viruses, bacteria, or low blood pressure and organ failure), usually after many months of being infected.
     
  11. emg.

    emg. New Member

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    Okay thanks, thats really informative and.helpful im glad youre able to reply to me, i see you in different threads. Glad to have some good helpful advice. Back to the topic, the string is not white. Its a pink color and it came out overnight, the fish didnt have any stringy thing until this morning and it expanded pretty rapidly over a course of 20 minutes went from 1/2 inch to 1 1/4 inch but it isnt white and he swims around playful. Tried to net him out to try and remove manually but it kept hidding under the rocks then eventually.come out and still swim around so it only showed today

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  12. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Don't bother trying to remove it manually. The fish just has a tough poop that isn't coming off quickly. Just monitor them over the next few weeks and add a bit more plant matter to their diet and see if that helps.

    Deworm them when you can. The deworming medications are fine for all fish and won't affect filter bacteria or plants and should be fine with turtles too. :)
     
  13. emg.

    emg. New Member

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    Okay thanks. Bad news tho i think i might have to deworm the whole tank. Yesterday night when i got.home the fish didnt seem to have it anymore so i supposed it was a long string of hard poop. But today in the morning i found the same fish now had a thinner but white string attached to its bottom and in the half.part of the string a oval like thing. He actually expelled it before i left home but i turned on my water circulators and all the micro and big waste started circulating the tank i managed to remove a couple white string that looked like turtle shedding altough they had a strong flexibility to them that you had to do a small tug to rip in two pieces

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  14. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    You normally have to deworm the entire tank and if you have more than 1 tank, you should deworm all of them at the same time to prevent cross contamination.
     
  15. emg.

    emg. New Member

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    Okay yea i will, tomorrow. Ill get the stuff from my local pet shop i only have the 1 big tank now. Thanks alot :)

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