Tropical Mix In With Cold Water

[jjkremp]

ok well heres the deal when i first got my aquarium i knew little about fish for that fact my aunt always had them and i remember here having koi and some strange fish in with it now i know as a pink Gourami, so anyways i went to walmart which is the only place around with fish and got me two pinks and a koi aswell as a lil at the time goldfish the feeder kind, well weeks went by and i got a headlight tetra a one bala then moved on to having two plecos thrown in the mix all within a 29gallon tank which i managed well since im used to maintaining pools i kinda was good at keeping a chemical free tank in the process i check ph and all that daily now as i got more into the hobby and came online i noticed that the koi and goldfish were coldwater and shouldnt have been mixed with my tropical especially since now all of them minus the tetra are about the same size at 3.5- 4.0 inches so i got another 29 gallon tank and put it next to my main one and put the koi and goldfish in it by themselves along with a few more lil goldfish still tiny. now the problem is even though they all didnt get along the best and didnt belong togather period they all linger in the corners of the tanks where the two tanks touch and wont come to the surface to eat or really swin around. its been 2 days and only the plecos seem to be going around their usual business with the others only eating a few bites that drift right in front of them. so im wondering since im still so new to them should i just get a 55 gallon and put them all back togather or what?

im very attached to them and they have been together for about 5 months now.
my aunt successfully kept 1 koi and 1 Gourami together so is that a fluke or very much possible ?
please help they look very unhappy & has me worried NO deaths ever so far and i dont wont one period.

thank you in advance for any replies on this

further like to note that no fish have fight marks or really get much into other than occasional head butts from the pink and charges from the koi
water temp is constant 78F
water is never cloudy
ph is dead neutral (hope thats right)
change out 1gallon a day (noticed thats they only way i achieve clear water)
use water cleaner for aquariums with ever swap

 

[nosoup4you]

Well, probably the reason your goldfish are acting wacky is that they were most likely placed into a non-cycled tank. Some really good info on cycling can be found here. Also, your koi/goldfish should be kept without a heater (78 is too hot). Testing pH is good but far more important are tests for ammonia and nitrite. If you do not have these test kits, you should get them. In the meantime, try doing a 50% water change and see if the behavior does not improve. Sounds like classic signs of ammonia toxicity...

 

[jjkremp]

Well, probably the reason your goldfish are acting wacky is that they were most likely placed into a non-cycled tank. Some really good info on cycling can be found here. Also, your koi/goldfish should be kept without a heater (78 is too hot). Testing pH is good but far more important are tests for ammonia and nitrite. If you do not have these test kits, you should get them. In the meantime, try doing a 50% water change and see if the behavior does not improve. Sounds like classic signs of ammonia toxicity...

ok will do ima try and go into visalia on monday sure ill find that stuff there at the reef but as for the other tank whats their deals they remained in the same water

 

[nosoup4you]

Without complete water test results, it is hard to say. Did you do anything (cleaning) in the old tank around the time of the move?

 

[jjkremp]

Without complete water test results, it is hard to say. Did you do anything (cleaning) in the old tank around the time of the move?

nothing new like i said i do a daily gallon switch out been doing it since i got them never caused problems before as for a cycle not like whats described on this site i let my aquariums sit for 32hrs both when i got it and with the 2nd one before adding any fish since my filter said to do so for 24hrs but i gave it time so no chlorine was in it.. other than my usual nothing new. can the fish see each other from the other tanks cuz they all corner to corner and the koi and gold in the same corner just in their tank

 

[nosoup4you]

It is not uncommon for fish in tanks that are in close proximity to swim toward one another/pace that side of the tank but the fact that they are more interested in hanging at the corner than they are in food would concern me. Get your water tested ASAP just to be safe.

 

[Wills]

JJkremp hi and welcome to the forum! It is very clear that you have a strong love for your fish and that is very commendable but I really truly do hate to say it but instead of dancing around, the only fish suitable for your tank in there is the glowlight tetra if I was you I would take everything else back. Koi are pond fish and get huge!!! Bigger than 2 foot I have seen a 3 foot monster koi once. Kissing gourami are an 8 inch fish the plecs will get to a foot long each the goldfish if its a common one then thats an other foot long fish. I know your aunt kept them and I am more than sure she kept them with all the love and best motivation in the world but she did not have access to the same resources to you and perhaps would not have been able to learn as much as you can now. For instance you can literaly open a book or google koi and see they are a pond fish within the first page. Apart from building a pond for your koi and goldfish and getting a six foot 125 gallon tank for the rest I dont see any other option to other than to take them back to the store and start again with more suitable fish. There are many other smaller gourami that are suitable for your tank. If you want to mimic the fish you have now how about having a thick lipped goruami with rosy barbs and some bristlenose plecs so your stocking would look like

1 Thick lipped gourami - look very similar to the kissers but only get to 3-4 inch not 8
6 Rosy barbs - look very similar to goldfish but only get to 3-4 inch not 12
3 Kohaku Sword tails - Look like koi get to 2-3 inch not 24
2 Bristlenose plecs - Smaller plecs get to around 4 inch not 12+

Sorry to be so harsh but seriously this tank will never ever work you will save the fish and in more than equal measures of stress yourself, looking after a failing fish tank is never an easy thing and I really do think 100% that there is no way this can work. Many fishkeepers have to ask this question and the question is "can I look after these fish 100% how they should" and if you fall much bellow 80% on that question you need to take them back to a store where someone will be able to come along and give them the home they need for example if you take your 4 inch koi and goldfish back someone with a large pond could come in the same day and give them the home that they need.

I really do mean no offense but, it is very clear that you need quick answers to save your fishes lives and your own stress levels. If you stick with the site we can help you through all the early stages of fish keeping and you will be able to enjoy your hobby and pets a lot more for many years to come Wills

 

[jjkremp]

It is not uncommon for fish in tanks that are in close proximity to swim toward one another/pace that side of the tank but the fact that they are more interested in hanging at the corner than they are in food would concern me. Get your water tested ASAP just to be safe.

well good news is all but the bala are back to normal by tonight the gold fish and the koi in their tank are eating not much as before but more than they have in the last days i removed their heater like you suggested
i found a tank on craiglist 85gallon ill be getting it in the morning for my tropicals how exactly do i begin to cycle that tank without putting the fish in it?

as for taking the koi and goldfish back walmart doesnt take back fish after 72hrs its been months i can probably get a 55 gallon next month if i can cycle this big tank right

 

[jjkremp]

JJkremp hi and welcome to the forum! It is very clear that you have a strong love for your fish and that is very commendable but I really truly do hate to say it but instead of dancing around, the only fish suitable for your tank in there is the glowlight tetra if I was you I would take everything else back. Koi are pond fish and get huge!!! Bigger than 2 foot I have seen a 3 foot monster koi once. Kissing gourami are an 8 inch fish the plecs will get to a foot long each the goldfish if its a common one then thats an other foot long fish. I know your aunt kept them and I am more than sure she kept them with all the love and best motivation in the world but she did not have access to the same resources to you and perhaps would not have been able to learn as much as you can now. For instance you can literaly open a book or google koi and see they are a pond fish within the first page. Apart from building a pond for your koi and goldfish and getting a six foot 125 gallon tank for the rest I dont see any other option to other than to take them back to the store and start again with more suitable fish. There are many other smaller gourami that are suitable for your tank. If you want to mimic the fish you have now how about having a thick lipped goruami with rosy barbs and some bristlenose plecs so your stocking would look like

1 Thick lipped gourami - look very similar to the kissers but only get to 3-4 inch not 8
6 Rosy barbs - look very similar to goldfish but only get to 3-4 inch not 12
3 Kohaku Sword tails - Look like koi get to 2-3 inch not 24
2 Bristlenose plecs - Smaller plecs get to around 4 inch not 12+

Sorry to be so harsh but seriously this tank will never ever work you will save the fish and in more than equal measures of stress yourself, looking after a failing fish tank is never an easy thing and I really do think 100% that there is no way this can work. Many fishkeepers have to ask this question and the question is "can I look after these fish 100% how they should" and if you fall much bellow 80% on that question you need to take them back to a store where someone will be able to come along and give them the home they need for example if you take your 4 inch koi and goldfish back someone with a large pond could come in the same day and give them the home that they need.

I really do mean no offense but, it is very clear that you need quick answers to save your fishes lives and your own stress levels. If you stick with the site we can help you through all the early stages of fish keeping and you will be able to enjoy your hobby and pets a lot more for many years to come Wills

how big would this pond need to be? i manage and own my own large apartment complex and have no issues in adding a pond to this site if need be but how large would it have to be and how would one cycle a pond or is it even necessary?

my goal is to fix this problem with my fish not give up and hope that maybe Maybe someone else might do better for them.. thats why i joined this site not to take mine back and get new ones hoping my old are well looked after when they might not i joined this site to see what was wrong and what condition need be met i been reading lots of pages on this site only thing im still confused about after reading it 10 times is the cycling still dont understand it

 

[Wills]

my goal is to fix this problem with my fish not give up and hope that maybe Maybe someone else might do better for them.. thats why i joined this site not to take mine back and get new ones hoping my old are well looked after when they might not i joined this site to see what was wrong and what condition need be met i been reading lots of pages on this site only thing im still confused about after reading it 10 times is the cycling still dont understand it

That is awesome if your in a position to do this properly then the people on this board can really help! I know very little about ponds but if you posted in the ponds section on this site the people there would be able to guide you on size but if you made one large enough you would be able to add them some more friends. So if we consider the pond as a long term solution for the gold fish and the koi. This is a link to here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showforum=18

That brings us to the kisser, bala, plecs and glowlight. The fish needing the biggest tank of them is the bala shark because they just grow so big and and are very active, they are also a schooling fish which means that they need to be in groups a group of 3 is usually ok but the more the merrier! I think tank wise you should be looking at a 6 foot x 2 foot x 2foot or similar like a 6x 18 inch x18 inch its the length that is needed for these fish but it needs to be more than a foot wide so they can turn around

Then your stocking could look like
3x Bala Sharks
1x Pink Kissing Gourami
2x Common Plec
and then you still have space to add a few more fish

With the glowlight tetra I would keep them in the 29 gallon tank and get him some friends as they need to be in a school to feel comfortable so maybe add an other 9 glowlights to his tank. Then you would be able to add a few other species in with him as well just so long as they do not grow to large for that tank. In a 3 foot tank idealy you want to have a maximum size of 4 inches maybe 5 depending on how active the fish is.

With the cycle the easy way to think of it is fish create ammonia which is basicaly poison to the fish. In nature and in the aquarium a bacteria grows that will turn ammonia into slightly less toxic nitrite and then again bacteria will grow and turn the nitrite into nitrate which in low doses in water is harmless to fish. The only way to take the nitrate out is to do a water change.

To grow the bacteria you need a filter and then when you first get it set up there are two ways for you to grow the bactera. Usually we advise to do it fishless which is where we replace fish waste with pure bottled ammonia which grows the same bacteria as the fish poop would. But inadvertently youve gone into a fish in cycle where the fish are producing the ammonia and living in it to compensate this you need to do large water changes each day 50% +

Hope thats helped

Wills

 

[jjkremp]

ahh im getting it now ok so when i get my 85 gal all set up i wanna get a 2 more balas and keep the tetra with some new tetras in the 29gal now one more questions since they still in there (speaking about the tropicals not the koi) 29gal tank when my 85 gets heres is it best to do the fish in cycle in the 85 or keep a fish in cycle in the 29 tank while going fishless in the 85g which would be safer for them im no expert but im thinking the 85 since it be diluted more since they all still small but whats your thoughts on this ?

 

[Wills]

Yeah in the 85 they would be best off I think but you will still need to do very frequent water changes also if you get an air pump and stone for your tank to oxygenate the water they would be best off.

What are the dimensions of the 85? As like I say the balas and the plecos will need a 6 foot tank when they are bigger.

Also have you thought about what kind of filtration unit you will use on the 85 as you will need one that does roughly 8 to 10x the tanks capacity an hour so something like 700 - 850 gallons an hour which usually means you will need an external filter which is a bit similar to a pond filter in size and capacity.

 

[jjkremp]

Yeah in the 85 they would be best off I think but you will still need to do very frequent water changes also if you get an air pump and stone for your tank to oxygenate the water they would be best off.

What are the dimensions of the 85? As like I say the balas and the plecos will need a 6 foot tank when they are bigger.

Also have you thought about what kind of filtration unit you will use on the 85 as you will need one that does roughly 8 to 10x the tanks capacity an hour so something like 700 - 850 gallons an hour which usually means you will need an external filter which is a bit similar to a pond filter in size and capacity.

well im an hour away from getting it and those steps already covered he is giving me his air pump which lmao he made himself outta a modified air treatment machince for asthmatics and it comes with 2 3 stage filters and 1 bio wheel said they all do about 300 us gallons an hour he had the filters dry out so i know the bacteria ya all talk about is most likely ruined but what about the gravel he said he kept about 5 inches of water still in it ( he sold his oscar just over 24hrs ago) should i leave what lil water he has in there for the bacteria or what. also what about using my ten galls filter temp in addition to its the media in it hasnt been changed in over a month still not clogged would that help spread the bacteria faster or should i do something else. also comes with a sump pump for draining any way to make some sorta filter outta that temp until i can get a 500 gal filter which wont be for another 1week when my tenants pay rent?

also this tank he built himself its 50inches long 14 wide and 35inches tall he said not to fill it all the way up only fill 85gal which tthere is a marker also no lights just lexan hood but i have acess to thousand of houshold fixtures so i can make one

 

[Wills]

Good stuff looks like you are well on your way now! When you get the other filter I would keep all the other filters running as well it really will help. Seems a shame you can not top it right up as full those dimensions make 110 gallons so its quite a lot of water space your not using could you not re seal the silicone? Just to re enforce it.

One issue with that tank is that it is a tall 110 tank so there is not much floor space but as you dont have any territorial fish like cichlids I dont think this will be an issue but I would keep your big fish to what we said about 3 balas the kisser and the plecs as the smaller air space will give less room for gas transfer - Co2 to oxygen, so the fish have less oxygen than they would in a standard 100 long which is usually 6ft long but because balas are active I think they will appreciate room in any direction up or along ha ha.

With the gravel keep it wet it will help a bit but 99% of the bacteria is in the filter. I would rinse the filter pads out because dead bacteria just rots then keep the fish in the 29 gallon for now as it will be further along on its cycle than the new tank then get some household ammonia and start a fishless cycle it should take around 3 - 4 weeks. Then you will be sorted

 

[jjkremp]

Good stuff looks like you are well on your way now! When you get the other filter I would keep all the other filters running as well it really will help. Seems a shame you can not top it right up as full those dimensions make 110 gallons so its quite a lot of water space your not using could you not re seal the silicone? Just to re enforce it.

One issue with that tank is that it is a tall 110 tank so there is not much floor space but as you dont have any territorial fish like cichlids I dont think this will be an issue but I would keep your big fish to what we said about 3 balas the kisser and the plecs as the smaller air space will give less room for gas transfer - Co2 to oxygen, so the fish have less oxygen than they would in a standard 100 long which is usually 6ft long but because balas are active I think they will appreciate room in any direction up or along ha ha.

With the gravel keep it wet it will help a bit but 99% of the bacteria is in the filter. I would rinse the filter pads out because dead bacteria just rots then keep the fish in the 29 gallon for now as it will be further along on its cycle than the new tank then get some household ammonia and start a fishless cycle it should take around 3 - 4 weeks. Then you will be sorted

that aint long at all they have been getting more active in there on their own all day and night so im sure they wont mind the 4 week wait i cant wait to get them in their I'/m sure i will see different behaviors from em aswell being more room and stuff thanks for all the info as for sealing stuff there arnt cracks so i dont know why he said not to fill all the way up the glass is 1/2inch thick that should hold 110 fine right? idk ill fill it up full and test for leaks and durability its already here and slowly filling