Treating Tank For Ich But Now Doubt If It's Ich At All

[lyolya]

Hi, eevryone. So here is what i have:

1. Water parameters. (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, PH, temp', Hardness etc)
my water parameters are all fine, not only i test them myself but i took water sample to LFS and they also told me my water is good with very low nitrates.

2. A full description of the fishes symptoms.
i notices 6 days ago my pitbull pleco had 2 single white spots - on his tail and one on the body. my gourami had 1 spot on the tail too. then the one on gourami dissapeared and never came back. my pleco developed many more spots. NONE of my other fishes show any spots that i can see. even my corys!

3. How often you do water changes and how much.
i do around 30, 40% each week

4. Any chemicals and treatments you add to the water.
to treat the ich im doing "ich attack" by kordon, the herbal formula which is safe for my corys, my snail, and my 2 little danio fry. im doing 2 full teaspons every day according to instructins. on the kordon website it says that i can double and even triple the dosage if the spots don't dissapear after each week. but i don't know if i should do that!

5. What tank mates are in the tank.
1 pitbul pleco, 3 three line corys, 3 halfbeaks, 4 pink zebra danios (+2 tiny 6-7 day old fry in a breeder net. btw, they r already pink!! and no these are not glo fish), 1 dwarf dourami, and 1 german blue ram. + 1 zebra nerite snail

6. Tank size.
20 gal tall and planted tank, double filtration w 2 filters. i put the temp to 81 to help w the parasites + removed carbon

7. Finally Have you recently added any new fish?
the last 2 fish i added were 1 cory and the snail, but the same day i noticed pleco + gourami having 1 spot. pleco was added maybe a few weeks back. he didn't seem very comfortable at first, swimming radically up and down one corner of the aquarium. in several days he calmed down.


What i find very odd is that none of my other fish have any spots that i can see. only the pleco. so now, after 6 days of treatment im starting to doubt ich. however, pleco is gettign more and more spots. not tooo many, but still. here is the picture of him that i took today. so it all started with 1 spot, now we are at this stage.

so maybe its not ich at all?.. if not then what?.. please, any advice is appreciated. i love this guy, i wouldn't want him to die.

PS: he eats fine and works on my algea all day and night

the spots dont look too white here.. they look just a bit whiter in reality, but not paper white.. velvet?.. but even if it was, wouldn't i still use the same treatment? and wouldn't that be contageous too?

 

[Meggie :)]

Unfortunately, I don't know exactly what it is, but Ive had ich before and it looked more like dandruff or snowflakes...I don't think it's ich...sorry i cant be of more help

 

[lyolya]

Unfortunately, I don't know exactly what it is, but Ive had ich before and it looked more like dandruff or snowflakes...I don't think it's ich...sorry i cant be of more help

thanks Meggie. yeh it does look a bit odd plus doesn't seem to get to the other fish. at least so far. but thanks for ur input, hopefully someone else knows what it is!

 

[Meggie :)]

yea. if you've had it for a while it's prob not ich. ich wiped out my entire tank in barely more than a week. im sorry i couldnt help you

 

[lyolya]

oh and guys i don't know if it matters or not at all, but I also have some white small round growings on my wood that started showing up basically the same time. they'r like tiny snowbals cut in half. i showed them to the LFS employee and he told me that they are pretty common and come and go without any reason. but they are multiplying as well, so i thought it could matter

actually, here is a pic.

 

[AvidD]

lyola, I'm sorry to read of your troubles. Really can't tell from the pic because the spots look more yellowish than white, but if you say they are white (in person) then I'd say that pleco has Ich. I wouldn't right it off as not being Ich just because it's only your pleco that is showing spots. Fish without scales, such as plecos & loaches tend to be more susceptible to Ich, more so than other fish with scales. So the fact that your pleco is covered in spots while everyone else is not isn't so peculiar. Plus, Ich is a protozoan parasite that goes through stages, one of which is a stage when cysts (the white spots on the fish) drop off of fish & into the substrate, "mature", & reattach themselves to hosts as fish disturb the substrate scavenging for food etc, (starting the cycle all over again). That's pretty much what plecos do 24/7, disturb the substrate, so if there are Ich cysts in the substrate then it would make sense that your pleco would show more significant symptoms of Ich than your other fish.

I treat Ich by raising my water temp to about 82° - 85° F & dosing with salt (regular table salt). But being that you have a pleco in your tank, I wouldn't use salt or if I did it would be in lower doses that normally suggested (about half dosage tops).

Just keep using the "pleco safe" medication that you're using as instructed. It usually takes about 2 - 3 weeks to get rid of Ich once you've started treatment, 6 days isn't enough to get rid of it. You could still raise the temp to about 85° F, this alone won't get rid of the Ich but it does speed up the whole protozoan cycle including the free floating stage when the protozoa are floating freely in the water & not locked into cysts in the substrate. It is at this free floating stage when the protozoa are most vulnerable & most effected by meds/salt treatment. Just make sure that when you raise the temp that you've got more agitation at the water's surface than you normally do since higher water temps = more oxygen depletion. Use an airstone or a powerhead (if you have one).

Just be patient & stick with the treatment. I wish I could tell you that Ich can be treated & resolved in a couple of days or in a week, but it can't. If you stick with the treatment long enough (2 - 3 weeks), your pleco & other fish should end up fine.

 

[AvidD]

oh and guys i don't know if it matters or not at all, but I also have some white small round growings on my wood that started showing up basically the same time. they'r like tiny snowbals cut in half. i showed them to the LFS employee and he told me that they are pretty common and come and go without any reason. but they are multiplying as well, so i thought it could matter

actually, here is a pic.

Oh & as for your wood... Is that wood new? It's very common for wood, especially new wood to develop fungi on it when introduced into an aquarium. I wouldn't worry too much about it, as a matter of fact your pleco should love munching on that wood & in the process consuming the fungus spots you're referring to. Fungi on wood is what plecos call "good eating" yummmm

 

[lyolya]

lyola, I'm sorry to read of your troubles. Really can't tell from the pic because the spots look more yellowish than white, but if you say they are white (in person) then I'd say that pleco has Ich. I wouldn't right it off as not being Ich just because it's only your pleco that is showing spots. Fish without scales, such as plecos & loaches tend to be more susceptible to Ich, more so than other fish with scales. So the fact that your pleco is covered in spots while everyone else is not isn't so peculiar. Plus, Ich is a protozoan parasite that goes through stages, one of which is a stage when cysts (the white spots on the fish) drop off of fish & into the substrate, "mature", & reattach themselves to hosts as fish disturb the substrate scavenging for food etc, (starting the cycle all over again). That's pretty much what plecos do 24/7, disturb the substrate, so if there are Ich cysts in the substrate then it would make sense that your pleco would show more significant symptoms of Ich than your other fish.

I treat Ich by raising my water temp to about 82° - 85° F & dosing with salt (regular table salt). But being that you have a pleco in your tank, I wouldn't use salt or if I did it would be in lower doses that normally suggested (about half dosage tops).

Just keep using the "pleco safe" medication that you're using as instructed. It usually takes about 2 - 3 weeks to get rid of Ich once you've started treatment, 6 days isn't enough to get rid of it. You could still raise the temp to about 85° F, this alone won't get rid of the Ich but it does speed up the whole protozoan cycle including the free floating stage when the protozoa are floating freely in the water & not locked into cysts in the substrate. It is at this free floating stage when the protozoa are most vulnerable & most effected by meds/salt treatment. Just make sure that when you raise the temp that you've got more agitation at the water's surface than you normally do since higher water temps = more oxygen depletion. Use an airstone or a powerhead (if you have one).

Just be patient & stick with the treatment. I wish I could tell you that Ich can be treated & resolved in a couple of days or in a week, but it can't. If you stick with the treatment long enough (2 - 3 weeks), your pleco & other fish should end up fine.

Hi, AvidD, thank u for your advice. the truth is the spots aren't much whiter in person, maybe just a stinge. they are definetly nothing like the color of those white things on my wood. more like his skin color under the coloration if that makes any sense. ill check out tomorow again . when i first saw those 2 dots on him in the very beginning they were white white, but now they have definetly somewhat changed color. i don't know, wouldn't u think corys would also get it since they too spend all day on the gravel?

but i will definetly raise the temperature some more and continue the treatment unless someone identifies it as something else

 

[hanny93]

Raising the temperature only speeds up the lifecycle of the parasite, it doesnt kill it.

'Fine' isnt good enough when it comes to test results, what are your exact numbers?

 

[lyolya]

[/quote]

Oh & as for your wood... Is that wood new? It's very common for wood, especially new wood to develop fungi on it when introduced into an aquarium. I wouldn't worry too much about it, as a matter of fact your pleco should love munching on that wood & in the process consuming the fungus spots you're referring to. Fungi on wood is what plecos call "good eating" yummmm
[/quote]

the wood is around 2 months, so yes it is. im glad to know it's not dangerous, but i just found it interesting that the two events started at the same moment.
but i'll be sure to watch if he eats it!

 

[AvidD]

Hi, AvidD, thank u for your advice. the truth is the spots aren't much whiter in person, maybe just a stinge. they are definetly nothing like the color of those white things on my wood. more like his skin color under the coloration if that makes any sense. ill check out tomorow again . when i first saw those 2 dots on him in the very beginning they were white white, but now they have definetly somewhat changed color. i don't know, wouldn't u think corys would also get it since they too spend all day on the gravel?

but i will definetly raise the temperature some more and continue the treatment unless someone identifies it as something else

As you pointed out, you'd think the cories would be showing spots as well, but not necessarily. Perhaps they were about to start showing spots as well but by you starting the dosing of meds you staved the spots off on them. There is a chance it's not Ich at all. But those spots are white/whitish ("like his skin color under the coloration") & they're pronounced, they're not velvety or fuzzy like you'd see with Columnaris or some fungus infection. And you've already started dosing for Ich, you're about a week into it, so seeing as the signs (the white spots) most likely point to Ich you might as well see it through to its' entirety unless someone identifies it as something else.

the wood is around 2 months, so yes it is. im glad to know it's not dangerous, but i just found it interesting that the two events started at the same moment.
but i'll be sure to watch if he eats it!

Don't worry about the pleco "eating" (more like rasping/munching) a bit of the wood. Plecos need access to a bit of wood to help them along with their digestion. If it eats some of the "fungus like" growth on the wood in the process I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[lyolya]

experts, any ideas??

as an update, i just noticed my long-finn danio has 2 white spots on one of her fins. and from what i make out they are white. i think i'm gonna double up on the medication. the medication im using is saying that there are different kinds of ich parasites and it's impossible to know which one without looking at it under the microscope, so if the spots don't dissapear after one week then double the dosage. if it doesn't dissapear after another week then triple the dosage.

and sinse my danio got new spots and it's been a week, i think it's reasonable to double up on that medication. what u guys think?

 

[lyolya]

Raising the temperature only speeds up the lifecycle of the parasite, it doesnt kill it.

'Fine' isnt good enough when it comes to test results, what are your exact numbers?

Hanny93, if u read again, im not only raising the temperature, but i'm also using medication.
as far as results, its 0 ammonia 0 nitrites 5 nitrates.

 

[AvidD]

experts, any ideas??

as an update, i just noticed my long-finn danio has 2 white spots on one of her fins. and from what i make out they are white. i think i'm gonna double up on the medication. the medication im using is saying that there are different kinds of ich parasites and it's impossible to know which one without looking at it under the microscope, so if the spots don't dissapear after one week then double the dosage. if it doesn't dissapear after another week then triple the dosage.

and sinse my danio got new spots and it's been a week, i think it's reasonable to double up on that medication. what u guys think?

If you're using meds (which you are) then you should adhere to the manufacturers recommended dosages & you should be fine.

Like I said before, I use salt because in addition to the meds being a bit harsh on some species of fish, adding meds to your main tank can sometimes wreak havoc on your tank's beneficial bacteria colony (depending on the dosages & duration of treatment). That's why I avoid using meds as much as possible on my main tank(s). That's not to say that I don't ever use them, but when I do I prefer to use them in a quarantine tank.

Just make sure if the dosage recommendations specifically mention instructions about water changes that you follow those instructions accordingly. I'd be concerned about what water quality issues could arise as a result of doubling & tripling dosages.

 

[lyolya]

experts, any ideas??

as an update, i just noticed my long-finn danio has 2 white spots on one of her fins. and from what i make out they are white. i think i'm gonna double up on the medication. the medication im using is saying that there are different kinds of ich parasites and it's impossible to know which one without looking at it under the microscope, so if the spots don't dissapear after one week then double the dosage. if it doesn't dissapear after another week then triple the dosage.

and sinse my danio got new spots and it's been a week, i think it's reasonable to double up on that medication. what u guys think?

If you're using meds (which you are) then you should adhere to the manufacturers recommended dosages & you should be fine.

Like I said before, I use salt because in addition to the meds being a bit harsh on some species of fish, adding meds to your main tank can sometimes wreak havoc on your tank's beneficial bacteria colony (depending on the dosages & duration of treatment). That's why I avoid using meds as much as possible on my main tank(s). That's not to say that I don't ever use them, but when I do I prefer to use them in a quarantine tank.

Just make sure if the dosage recommendations specifically mention instructions about water changes that you follow those instructions accordingly. I'd be concerned about what water quality issues could arise as a result of doubling & tripling dosages.

yeh, fo sure! this med is herbal, does not affect my bacteria, does not need water changes, safe for even a snal, and can also be used as a preventative. in case ur not too sure about that here's their info on it
http/www.novalek.com/kordon/ich_attack/index.htm

i'm actually really happy with this treatment, i just hope it works lol