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To Euthanize Or Not To Euthanize, That Is The Question

Discussion in 'Tropical Discussion' started by I Make Gum, Jun 6, 2008.

  1. I Make Gum

    I Make Gum Member

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    Hi, I just had the misfortune of losing my beloved betta, Charlie. If I had thought he would not make it, I would have ended his needless suffering a few days ago. This happened after about 8 or 9 days of treatment.

    See this link: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...p;#entry2028264

    I wanted to hear opinions on signs that "THAT" time is close. Being that I own other fish, this will not be the only occurance of this misfortunate situation. I don't want to make my fish suffer, but I do want to do everything I can to help them survive, if at all possible.

    :-(

    p.s. please lets leave out of this discussion methods of how to euthanize fish. I have seen a thread (maybe it was a sticky) on this forum that addresses that. Plus, I really couldn't have smashed poor Charlie. I loved him too much. I would have used the boyfriend technique. :-(
     
  2. Mauricia

    Mauricia Member

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    I know you said not to discuss methods, but are you aware of clove oil? If not I would look it up, it is much less gruesome than the other methods.
    As for when I've euthanized fish, I just judge when they look way to ill to get better. Or, I euthanized my five year old betta because of old age, he was too weak to swim and was just propped on a plant so he could breathe, and I had to put the food directly in his mouth to let him eat. I decided his quality of life wsa too poor and it was time to let him go.
     
  3. Tacklebury

    Tacklebury Member

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    Hi,

    I have posted a poll on this subject before. See here - http://www.fishforums.net/content/forum/22...hanize-A-Fish-/

    I personally feel a quick and painless death is better than being stuck in Oil, freezers etc...

    I try to imagine how i would like to go! Sod all this slowly falling alseep malarky, a quick painless death is for me.

    I personally catch the problem fish and carry it into the bathroom, a very short walk, then i swing the net into the side of the sink so the fish contacts the side hard and fast. This has euthanized every fish first time.

    Not a nice experiance but part of being a fish keeper.
     
  4. Corleone

    Corleone Member

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    Ever dissected a fish in school? Blow to the head destroys the brain and keeps the fish from struggling, but the heart and other organs keep working long enough to dissect and observe them directly. Same experience with turtles and frogs, so I'm pretty sure it's a common feature of cold blooded animals. Nothing fast about it, especially if you're squeamish and don't get a good blow the first try.

    There's also something to be said for minimizing the trauma to yourself and not just the fish.
     
  5. I Make Gum

    I Make Gum Member

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    Thanks for the reply, Corleone. That is how I feel. (I still have painful memories of euthanizing my very old, very sick pet ferret about 2 and 1/2 years ago) Also, as much as I don't want the fish to suffer, it turns my stomach to think about smashing it.

    "I know you said not to discuss methods, but are you aware of clove oil? If not I would look it up, it is much less gruesome than the other methods." I will amend my first statement (and because I put it in the title of this thread!! --oops!) :

    I just can't hear about smashing the fish.
    Personally, I smash bugs--the ones that are pests. All other insects and in house arthropods, I put them outside. So I'm not much of one for killing off any kind of living creature, if it can be helped. I don't think any death is painless, regardless of how calm it looks. I think, for everything that is alive on this planet, including plants, there is pain in death. Plants know when they are stressed and put out seeds to keep the next generation alive. Living creatures fight to survive, it's instinct. So, even the lowest of creatures is "afraid" (to anthropomorphize all life) of death. The fear itself could be felt as a sort of pain. Pain and panic (from the moment of death itself) aren't far off from each other.
    :-(

    I have heard of clove oil from this forum, I just haven't had time to look for more information on it. How is it used?

    Incidentally, in college, I had to disect a cat, a shark, a lamprey and some other creatures, thankfully who were all dead before they arrived in sanitary, sealed and vacuum packed bags. The cat that I had to dissect, was so traumatized in its death that he bit through his own tongue. His long front canine tooth literally protruded from the center of his tongue. So sad. Anyone have a pet cat? They don't bite their own tongues like people accidentally do... I have heard of people dissecting live animals, but have never (and would never) participated in that because I view that as torture.
     
  6. Corleone

    Corleone Member

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    The fish is put in a small container, and clove oil slowly added. Specifics, I can't help you, since I've never had to make this decision yet. It acts as an anesthetic to the fish, killing pain and rendering them unconscious. I've read about it used that way, too, to cut away badly damaged fins or trim badly overgrown puffer beaks. Anyway, just like anesthesia in people, too much administered too long, and they never wake up. It's usually how pets are put down, as well (though some shelters deal with many animals at once with a sort of gas chamber, which is probably what happened to the cat you mentioned).
     
  7. shelaghfishface

    shelaghfishface the one and only

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    yeah im with you on this one, i have only ever nearly had to euthanize once, and she died while i was at the chemist getting the clove oil, i was so grateful for that i cant tell you.
    but i appreciate how difficult it is when you grow so attched to any pet, its so difficult to end it even though its for the best, but as we love them we must do whats right for them, however hard it is :sad:
    shelagh
     
  8. sallyann

    sallyann Member

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    I had a sick goldfish a few months ago, and had to decide what to do, it was really fighting to survive, but was quite sick, miss wiggle on this forum suggested giving yourself a time span, like if it is not any better by this time next week, you will euthanize. In the end it died before the time was up, but I don't know if I could do it, non of my family wanted me to do it, but in the end it comes down to your personal views, I don't think you are right or wrong whatever you decide.
    Most people take on pets, and never think that you will be taking on its death as well, and probably have a very hard decision to make at the end of its life. It does not matter whether it is a fish or a horse, we get attached to them, but you must make that decision, it is ok to listen to other views.

    I also think that with some animals the vet does the euthanizing, so it is out of your hands, even if you choose to stay, but with a fish you have to do it yourself, which is very hard, I am sure it takes vets ages to get used to euthanizing, and as we do it so infrequently we never to get used to it.
    I had a hard week, when my fish was sick and dreaded going into the room it was in, I hate to see them suffer, in a way once you have made the decision what to do it is a weight off your mind, its the agonising that kills you!!
     
  9. andywg

    andywg Bored into leaving

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    How strange, the topic is:

    First post:

    :rolleyes:
     
  10. fry_lover

    fry_lover Fred and the Fredettes

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    that is mad, insane
     
  11. Corleone

    Corleone Member

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    Well, the detail can get a bit disturbing. Talk of whacking fish with hammers gives me the willies. It's almost impossible to talk about euthanasia without talking about the methods, though.
     
  12. andywg

    andywg Bored into leaving

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    Indeed, but why request discussion on how and when in the title, and then request that nobody mentions the how in the first post? ;)
     
  13. I Make Gum

    I Make Gum Member

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    clearly you are skimmers and not readers....


    because i said later:

    "......Also, as much as I don't want the fish to suffer, it turns my stomach to think about smashing it.

    "I know you said not to discuss methods, but are you aware of clove oil? If not I would look it up, it is much less gruesome than the other methods." I will amend my first statement (and because I put it in the title of this thread!! --oops!) :

    I just can't hear about smashing the fish....... "


    also, i was upset when i wrote the post....have heart you guys :grr:
     
  14. gaz gun man

    gaz gun man Member

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    well, personally for me I dont see fish as pets. I'll do my best by them, giving them the best water conditions possible etc, but when it comes to it, killing a fish is quite easy for me. If it has to be done, then it has to be done.
    I shoot and prep my own meat from time to time(rabbits), so I suppose im sort of used to death. Not seeing fish as pets definately helps.

    I do have 2 (feline) cats that I see as pets, and whilst it would be harder to do it if needs be, I could humanely put them down.
     
  15. andywg

    andywg Bored into leaving

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    Nope. I read the whole post and the whole thread. I would have pointed out the potential failings of clove oil as it is not a proven analgesic had I not read your request to avoid the methods.

    However, the topic title and the first post are written at the same time and there is no message that you have edited the first post. Therefore, if you didn't want discussion of how, why not remove it from the title as you were making the first post? Simple question really.
     

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