They Will Never Lower Ada Prices By This Account!

[craynerd]

It seems ADA Europe have stopped the import of cheaper ADA products into Europe!!

Got this e-mail from ADG:

Chris,
Thank so much for the inquiry. Sorry for the delayed reply.

Due to a recent change in my terms with ADA, I am no longer permitted to ship any ADA product to Europe. It seems ADA Europe had a number of "issues" with my pricing and other things, and they complained to ADA Japan so much that they finally made me sign a contract stating that I would not ship to Europe. Sorry about that. I really wish I could help you. I am sure Aqua Essentials UK can get most of what you need in the future.

Nice to see thay are promoting AE but at the end of the day why should we pay X amount in Europe when the rest of the sodding world can get it for less!! Yea yea yea, i know ADA is quality! Fine so we ALL pay for that quality, why the hell should we in Europe suffer. AND i mean suffer, we are talking just less than half price for most items.!
It is absolutely crazy!!

Chris

 

[craynerd]

lol, sorry for that outburst!! i`ve had a hard day!!

 

[TammyLiz]

So this is from a supplier of ADA products to Europe who was selling them cheaper? Sorry, I'm coming in on the middle of something I guess.

I wonder what they did to "make" him sign something like that.... it doesn't make much sense to me. Wouldn't most suppliers do it whether or not other suppliers made a fuss? I mean, if they were making money, why not? I don't understand why they'd stop because of some complaints over others who are overpricing, and what, a request from the company?

 

[craynerd]

it was a request from ADA Europe ..to stop supplying the Europian market with the same, but cheaper ada japan goods!!!

 

[oldwhitewood]

Before AE started stocking stuff I was looking at buying from ADG but the shipping rates alone came to £80 or something, it just wasn't worth doing it. By the time you have ended up paying for the shipping on top of it probably works out more.

I know for a fact that ADA europe keep a tight reign over their pricing, if you look at the other sites selling ADA stuff you'll find they're about the same as Aqua Essentials.

I can relate to the situation you are in at the moment mate. I was like that a few months ago, I was really trying to get an ADA tank setup and I must have tried every avenue, trust me on this there is no way to get it cheaply! No way to get the stuff at knock down prices, these are the prices they've set for us europeans and we are kinda stuck to that for now. You have to put aside your thoughts of being thrifty as far as ADA is concerned, I've set a target of raising £2000 to set up an ADA tank probably at the end of the year maybe next year depending on how things pan out. I think this figure is very conservative and can see it going to £3000 easily. Once you get into our mindset you can scoff at reef keepers running live rock systems complaining at the price!

 

[Graeme Edwards]

This thread can open a serious debate on the standard of the planted tank hobby in the UK.

Like oldwhitewood ill be saving for probably 2-3 years for a close as possible ADA tank setup, but IL quote this from Takashi Amano him self....

"Another very important quality of good aquarist is flexibility. If there isnt enough time for the work, or inspirition doesn't come, the artist doesn't force it,but waits for the right moment. The same goes for finances: if the desired tank seems too expensive, settle for a cheaper one. Then there will be enough money for accessories later. The aquarist needs leeway in time, money, and spirit."

I think at the moment the planted tank hobby is so small ( In the UK anyway) that we who are in the hobby are always going to find it hard to source the products that we want to use, as it happens we all cant help but compear ADA to whats available at the moment.

Hats off to AE for finding more products that we want ( for me more glass items, but i would like to see more especially for nano tanks).

Some how we need to raise the profile of the planted aquaria in the UK.
Whether that means a type of Representative/role model to pave the way in the UK (Who knows).
It seems we need an association or club for real enthusiast, maybe then more well known companies will see the possible market and we will find it easier to get the high level of design that we crave.

Graeme.

 

[craynerd]

Oldwhite, can you please just give us a run down of what you expect to buy that comes to £3k !!

Ok i understand the tank and lighting can be very expensive, but still short of 1k ! Then you have your Co2 diffuser and lily pipe in and out, £300/350 . Wood - £100 . Substrate + sub ferts £50/70 (suppose u could double that on a bigger tank!!) Ferts for a starting setup MAX £100 ? ....are you not then ready to go?

Sure you have the tools but they are a luxury!

AHHHH filter!! Yes yes, forgot about that and havent a clue what an ADA filter costs...

Fair do...its lot but still cant see it being around the £3k mark!!

The same goes for finances: if the desired tank seems too expensive, settle for a cheaper one. Then there will be enough money for accessories later. The aquarist needs leeway in time, money, and spirit."

I think this is an excellent quote! thanks for posting moody, and it certainly tells me a lot!!

I have realized that most aquascapers only leave a tank running for a few years anyway. I can afford the Co2 diffuser, lily pipes, substrate and ferts all from ADA. But i think i will stick with my Eheim Filter and normal tank for now, also lighting!! Those are just luxuries i can not afford. Eheim filters are great, the normal tanks i buy are adiquate and the lighting will have to do!!

I think the rest of the stuff i am prepared to buy, ADA really have the niche so it is worth buying...but then is the high quality ADA stuff being let down significantly by the non-ADA products??

 

[Puffer punk]

yh the planted tank is rarer to find than a reef tank you can easyly spend more money on a good planted tank as you can on a SPS reef tank

 

[oldwhitewood]

trust me mate I have worked it out for a 90cm tank and I am not far off 3k, probably 2.5K to be more realistic. If I throw in a white Apple MacBook or Mac Mini that I want (another company very much like ADA in terms of expense and desirability) 3K easily! This is not including a filter and CO2 either! This would be for my full dream ADA setup though, something to work towards. Like the quote says (great quote moody) Amano is telling us chill out, take our time to build up the ADA kit slowly and it will be better in the long run. Even he is saying that and he owns the company! I am pleased because I have done exactly that, I've got a cheap tank and built my own cabinet. I am building up my aquajournals and ADA ferts, the only ADA hardware material I actually use is a grey parts set for £8.99 (so far). I use their substrate system and ferts of course. I've got a long way to go and I'm chuffed that you are getting the glassware and stuff like that already, as it means it's gaining popularity which can only be beneficial to us and our hobby.

 

[NAL]

Hi

Well this has opened up a can of worms...

Speaking as someone who has acquired a lot of ADA goods, I can say that I understand the predicament people feel they are in, because they do cost an arm and a leg. As Neil knows, I've taken a long time to pull all the stuff together, and patience plays a big part in this whole thing, no doubt. Initially, before Richard at AE considered stocking, I contacted Jeff at ADG about this (no reply though!) and more importantly, as a law abiding citizen, Revenue and Customs. To echo Neil's response, when you add shipping, insurance and then take into account tax you will have to pay one way or other other for importing these goods into the country the discount will not be that great. That said, it's worth pointing out that even to folk in the States, these products can seem expensive. The other thing of course is the relative strength of the pound against the dollar, and this naturally makes these goods look cheap to us when priced in US dollars.

Not withstanding this, the price in Europe clearly is pretty much fixed. I've mentioned this before, as has Neil, but if you check around European online retailers, the prices are the same as AE, give or take slight exchange rate fluctuations. So firstly, I don't believe AE are profiteering on this stuff. I would however like to know what the crack is with ADA Europe and their pricing policy. I actually think their behaviour is bordering on uncompetitive, and they are restricting the market by being so strict with the pricing policy. So what are the options? Pretty limited, unless you go to Houston or have friends in the US who would be willing to get these goods for you, which is of course an option. Similarly, if you know people in Japan. Otherwise, if you want to go ADA, you pay, and I'll be honest when I paid, I wasn't disappointed, as the stuff is first rate. That said, I'd echo Jeff Senske, in that it is the substrate that really is the key, and actually if you price up what you need with ADA substrate it is no more expensive that using Flourite or something similar. Of course, if you are a DIY kind of person, or you're skimping on your substrate, you'll get a distorted view of the cost. Similarly, the liquids are cheap by comparison to quite a few other brands, particularly when you consider the dosages required. That leaves the glassware. Take Amano's advice, don't focus on getting all the bling up front. Get the basics-Richard has done an absolutely fantastic job in bringing a whole range of goods to market that cater for most wallets, which aspire to the ADA aesthetic. I have a pollen glass beetle which I'm going to use on an ADA all glass tank. I'm also currently running a plastic Dennerle micro perler diffusor which cost me 15 quid. It does the job. If it was me, and I didn't want to wait, I'd set the tank up with a solid foundation and upgrade bits later. Get the substrate, put you cash there, along with the tank you want and the light rig you want. Don't worry about the £90 ADA MH bulb. I'd never use an ADA filter either-stick with a trusty Eheim.

Just a few thoughts...

Nick

 

[oldwhitewood]

Very well put Nick.

I would also like to add I have exchanged a few emails before with a guy that works at the ADA HQ in Niigata. We sent a few emails back and forth, as I was after a catalog (which he sent me). I said some things in japanese to him which I'd found off the internet and based on stuff I knew from films I was trying to be respectful, then he said "do you know any other japanese" and I was like "erm no that's it to be honest". This guy must work with Amano I was half going to say "yeah the next time Amano is in tell him I said Hi" but thought better of it!