The Truth About Altums

[SylvesterGraham]

Hello,

First post here but I'm actually quite experienced, believe it or not. I am considering getting Altums, but have been a little concerned about the lack and inconsistency of info in the species.

I've looked around on the web and there seems to be a lot of varying information on altums, about their habitat, sensitivity, and especially on whether they can be captive bred or not. Some say they are rarely bred, others say it has never been done at all. Do you know why altums are so difficult to breed? Or is that just a mystery?

Does anyone know of confirmed altum breedings? Or know anyone who has bred them personally?

Also, do you know if the heavy importation of the fish is damaging the natural population in south America?

Thank you,

 

[lloyd]

Cant be to much of a help. All i really know is the general "can be tricky to be kept long term, Very hard to breed in aquaria, need tall tanks and soft weater" and all that but i am Pretty sure Mr Amano's bred quite a few times...........Not sure if they died in the end though. His tank is a giant

 

[SylvesterGraham]

Cant be to much of a help. All i really know is the general "can be tricky to be kept long term, Very hard to breed in aquaria, need tall tanks and soft weater" and all that but i am Pretty sure Mr Amano's bred quite a few times...........Not sure if they died in the end though. His tank is a giant

Yes I've seen that tank, as I'm sure a lot of people have. Do you think you could point me in the direction of where you heard this? Thanks.

 

[mark2109111]

Altums are beautiful but they are truly hard to keep. They require tank of 125 gallons or more because of their large size and unlike many other angels they need to be in schools of 6 or more. That being said they are one of my favorite fish. just never had the space to setup a species tank for them. But if you have a big enough tank and end up getting them then you should defiantly post lots of pics

 

[lloyd]

I think i heard it in one of last years pfk issues. it has a pic of an altum on the front.
Another thing i have heard is that they hve a tendancy for just dropping dead. you could keep them for a year or two and then for no reason you could lose the lot in a weekend..........Not sure if this is right but i think i heard that happened with amanos fish but i might be wrong..........................Also if you youtube amaons fishtank in the comments under it some one who knows him quite welll talks about how the angels and neons all breed in the tank together

 

[mattlee]

if you can see a copy of the aqualog south american cichlids IV - discus and scalare book then they have pics of F1 and F2 altum angelfish so going on this they have been bred out of the wild.

they are very sensitive fish that require a black water set up with acidic and soft water so to keep them at home may require some thought and planning. most of the altums offered in shops if not all will be wild caught and they arent easy fish to adjust to new water parameters.

i dont know for sure but im unaware of a heavy importation of these fish. how many have you seen for sale at lfs?

 

[SylvesterGraham]

i dont know for sure but im unaware of a heavy importation of these fish. how many have you seen for sale at lfs?

If by lfs you mean local fish stores, I've seen none. I would want to purchase from a breeder anyhow.

I spoke with one breeder and she claims Columbia strictly regulates the number of altum exports each year. Although I wouldn't be surprised if theres poaching that's happening too.

Alex

 

[lloyd]

To be honest i dont think ive ever actually seen any. If you can find some good quality scalare i think they can be just a attractive. Warf aquatics often have some really nice scalare. Iv never seen a leopaldi either

 

[mattlee]

i think Colombia has strict export regulations on quite a few fish to be honest. for example zebra plecs cant or very few can be exported to retain stock in the wild which is why they demand such high prices for a very small plec. this may be the same for altums but im not sure tbh

 

[SylvesterGraham]

Regardless thanks for the info.

 

[coldcazzie]

Doesn't TwoTankAmin have a setup for altums?

 

[mark2109111]

My local fish store is selling them for 20$ each and they are quite a decent size. i am in mass usa.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I do keep altums. There is an excellent site for them. PM me for the info on the site. You must be a member to read the forums but other areas are open including the galleries.

Just a few quickies.

Altums, and some of the other wild angels, look absolutely amazing. If you can manage to do Altums, you will not be disappointed.

There are very few people who have bred Altums successfully. Simon Forkel is one soing so currently. The site I mentioned has a thread about this including photos of spawning. Linke and Siegrest are two more names of folks in Europe who have bred them. However, 99% or more of folks who keep Altums will never be able to spawn them, including me. There is an Asian discus breeder who claims to have spawned them. A bunch came onto the markets last year and there was a ton of controversy as to the lineage.

Take a look here, its in German but great pics and vids of Forkels stuff http/www.skalarezucht.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=30 (The angel site has some of the same pics but info in English.)

Normally, one gets Altums as recent imports. The come from very low pH water and it takes a good deal of work to keep them alive when they first come in, including when they go into the fishkeeper's tank. Cycling a tank for them can take many, many months as you actually need to create your own adapted bacteria that are able to function in acid pH. Proper meds, a UV and an R/O unit as well as almond (Catappa) leaves are needed.

The fish are only available at certain times of the year. They come from rivers in Venezuela, Colombia and Brazil. There is some disagreement over whether the Altums from the various rivers are all the same "strain" or if some grow bigger etc. than others. According to Heiko Bleher, the most beautiful and largest are found in the Rio Atabapo which is on the border of Venezuela and Colombia. Colombia bars collecting there in June and Venezuela in July, so the fish don't come out til August which is a problem.

Experience has taught Altum folks that the smaller the fish is upon arrival, the better the chances of survival. Having to wait those two months makes finding small Atabapo fish harder as they spawn a few months earlier. One of the Admins of the Angel site, who lived in Venezuela for many years and has been to many of the rivers, arranged for certified Atabapos to be imported and made available to site members. Almost all of these fish died. I lost 19/19 and a few members managed to keep only one or two alive I believe. The Altums from the other rivers all fared better from the same importer.

I lost my first 6 altums inside 6 weeks. I managed to keep my next 8/9 alive for the last few years, and, as noted, lost 19 Atabapos in about 24 days.

If one is lucky you can sometimes find folks selling theirs for some reason and then you can luck into bigger, well acclimated fish.

Oh yes- long term they should be in a tank that is at least 31 inches deep, or more. I am getting ready to hunt down a 180 Tall 72in x 18in x 31in) for mine as their final home. (I might spring for the 72x24x31.)

mattlee, zebra plecos come only from the Big bend of the Rio Xingu in Brazil. They have been illegal to remove from there since about late 2004.

 

[SylvesterGraham]

My local fish store is selling them for 20$ each and they are quite a decent size. i am in mass usa.

That is interesting. So am I. Would you mind telling me the name of the store?

 

[SylvesterGraham]

Two tank,

Thank you for all that great info.

I feel very stupid... But I can't seem to figure out how to pm you. Maybe I don't have enough privileges yet?

Sylvester